Jen Hewett on Women of Color in Craft - Ep 23
This week on First Coat we have Jen Hewett. Jen Hewett is a printmaker, surface designer, textile artist, and author based in the Hudson Valley. Jen’s work combines her love of loud prints, 1970s maximalism, and saturated colors with the textures and light of the landscapes that surround her. She recently came out with her second book This Long Thread: Women of Color on Craft, Community, and Connection. In this episode we talk about her new book, her experience as an artist and business owner, and what's inspiring her right now.
LINKS
Jen Hewett's new book: This Long Thread: Women of Color on Craft, Community, and Connection.
Women in Clothes by Heila Heti, Heidi Julavits, and Leanne Shapton
Episode 9: On Taking Small Actions and Exercising Boundaries with Artist Jen Hewett
Photo via Jen Hewett.
Book cover for This Long Thread: Women of Color on Craft, Community, and Connection by Jen Hewett.
LISTEN & SUBSCRIBE HERE 👇🏾
Guest | Jen Hewett, Printmaker, Surface Designer, Textile Artist, and Author
Jen Hewett is based in the Hudson Valley. Jen’s work combines her love of loud prints, 1970s maximalism, and saturated colors with the textures and light of the landscapes that surround her. In addition to creating her own products, Jen designs fabric for the quilting and home sewing market, and home collections for national retailers.
Find Jen on Instagram @jenhewett, on Twitter @jenhewett , on Facebook @jenhewettstudio, and on her website https://jenhewett.com/ .
Artwork by Stephanie Eche.
Your Host | Stephanie Eche, CEO & Founder of Distill Creative
Stephanie Eche is an artist and art consultant based in Brooklyn, NYC.
Follow Stephanie on Instagram (@distillcreative or @stephanie_eche), Twitter (@stephanie_eche), YouTube (Distill Creative), LinkedIn, and check out her art website.
Support First Coat by backing us on Patreon.
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Stephanie Eche 00:02
Welcome to First Coat, where we explore public art, how it's made and why it matters. I'm your host Stephanie Eche, an artist and art consultant based in Brooklyn, New York. I interview artists, cultural producers, designers and funders on how art in public space happens, and how to create more equitable and inclusive projects in public space. I also share my tips on how to curate and commission art projects for your business. How I run my art consulting business, Distill Creative, and how I'm developing my own art practice. You can listen to this episode wherever you listen to podcasts, or watch it on YouTube. If you like what you hear, please leave a review and support this project on Patreon. I produce, edit, and, well, do everything myself so your support keeps this project going. If you're interested in my art, consulting services or artwork, check out distillcreative.com. Thanks so much for listening and I hope you enjoy this episode.
Stephanie Eche 00:56
Before we get into this episode, I just want to say thank you so much for listening to First Coat. It's been a hard few years for everyone and I want to wish you a Happy New Year and I hope you've gotten some rest these past few weeks. I'm really excited to keep sharing new episodes of First Coat this year and thank you again for for listening. It really means a lot. All right, here we go. This week on First Coat we have Jen Hewitt. Jen Hewitt is a printmaker, surface designer, textile artist and author based in the Hudson Valley. Jen's work combines her love of loud prints, 1970s, maximalism and saturated colors with the textures in light of the landscapes that surround her. In addition to creating her own products, Jen designs fabric for the quilting and home sewing market and home collections for national retailers. She recently came out with her second book, This Long Thread: Women of Color on Craft Community and Connection. In this episode, we talk about her new book, her experience as an artist and business owner, and what's inspiring her right now. Here's our conversation.
Stephanie Eche 02:03
Thank you so much for being on First Coat. Can you tell us who you are and what you do?
Jen Hewett 02:07
Sure. I'm Jen Hewett. I'm a surface designer, a printmaker, an author now, I'm sometimes a teacher, and a textile artist and I live in New York's Hudson Valley.
Stephanie Eche 02:21
Yeah, you're in New York now.
Jen Hewett 02:23
I am. I'm a transplant.
Stephanie Eche 02:26
Welcome.
Jen Hewett 02:27
Thank you.
Stephanie Eche 02:29
I was looking you up on LinkedIn and I noticed that we have one connection in common and it's Miranda Tang from National Apparel. So I used to work in small batch clothing production at Betabrand and so I would go to the sewing factories in downtown San Francisco, and that that's how I know Miranda. But I was wondering how do you know Miranda?
Jen Hewett 02:46
Pretty much the same way you know Miranda. It's so funny. I forget that I'm on LinkedIn, because I never go there. I never check it. I just don't need to anymore. But I started out screen printing way back in 2008. And I think around 2012/2013, I did a Kickstarter to expand the line of products I was able to offer and expand also the quantities. And so I worked with Miranda, who was going her factory was going to sew all the bags that I was making. But she had to cut the fabric first and then I printed on it and then I brought it back to the factory, and they sewed it and then I took it to a leather worker to put the leather straps on and it was quite a process. But Miranda was fantastic and the quality of work that her factory was doing was really outstanding. I wonder though, when I saw your questions ahead of time, I wondered, are they even still around? Because they were in super- like in this loft space that was probably really valuable and super central. So yeah, I don't know.
Stephanie Eche 03:51
I also wonder, I was trying to research and couldn't- It's the kind of thing where like, you just have to know where to go and show up and call them on the phone. I remember working with the sewing factories- you couldn't email anyone. So it's not like I can email them and ask like, "Are you still around?" Or find them on Instagram. It's just not that kind of world. I hope that they still exist. There's a few others that I worked with a lot too and I knew some of them had moved when I was still there.
Jen Hewett 04:16
I think a lot of them moved to South San Francisco because my zipper people who used to be in San Francisco, suddenly had a factory in South San Francisco across the street from my screen printing supply store, which also had moved from San Francisco to South San Francisco. It's just the nature I think of real estate prices, pre pandemic.
Stephanie Eche 04:38
Right, right. Maybe they'll all come back now who knows? So I was really excited when I got your email. Well, it was in your newsletter asking for people of color to basically submit their experiences being in the craft world. And I was wondering what was the most surprising response that you got?
Jen Hewett 04:59
I don't know if there was anything that was super surprising, I think the sheer volume of similar experiences was surprising to me. Because in some ways, feeling isolated from, you know, like the community groups that I'm in or the groups that I was in that were doing the kind of work I was doing, were predominantly white, and I would have these experiences and think, is, is it just me? Is this only happening to me? Is this happening to everyone? And folks would often say white folks would often say, I don't see it. Probably they meant this. And partly the survey, a lot of the questions I asked were questions that I asked myself too, and so to hear over and over again, oh, I was followed around a store. I, there were microaggressions, in a group knitting group that I joined, people would make offhand comments to me that were racist, and then would double down and say, that's not what they meant, like, oh, actually, it wasn't just me. It's happening across the community across the craft world to people of color. And these are, we share these very similar experiences.
Stephanie Eche 06:11
The other the example of not feeling welcome in, like fiber stores really resonated with me, because I feel like, that's something my husband will point out when we're in a new city, like, Oh, do you want to go to that yarn shop, and I'm just like, first of all, I can never afford anything in there. And second of all, it's usually, it's just kind of, I always feel like I'm, like both. I'm not even that young. I'm in my mid 30s. So it's not even like, but at first, I thought it was like an age thing. And then I was like, No, it's just like, everyone in here is always white. And it's like a very overpowering like, I don't know something about it. But on the flip side, I learned weaving at an art studio in Washington, DC that was predominantly of a community of women of color, predominantly black woman. And that was such an, like, overwhelmingly powerful experience for me and pushing me further into craft and also into like, quitting my day job and focusing on my own business. And all those things happened, because I think I had the support of that specific community that was very different than the craft communities I had come across online. And then in commercial spaces, I guess, or like even a craft fair, I think like Crafty Bastards, I would go to and get really excited. And then I just would realize, like, everybody kind of looks the same in like, being white, but also kind of like style of clothing, or just like being on trend in certain ways. And I think over the years craft kind of got this like, bad, bad rap maybe of being what wealthy white woman do. But I think it also depends on just where you are, and what's being seen. Because I knew that there were plenty of people of color doing craft, not just like in my cities that I was living in like DC, San Francisco, New York, LA, but also internationally, it's just like, who's being pushed forward and who is being promoted and shared around on the internet and stuff.
Jen Hewett 08:08
Yeah, and I would go, I would do craft fairs and I would be the only black person vending at these craft fairs quite often. It changed over the years. But for the first few years of doing craft fairs, I was like, I stand out here, I am the only one doing this work. And there was a definite aesthetic to a lot of the other work. And a lot of the other people, you know, there was definitely a look, especially in 2011 to 2014, when artisanal was a big thing, like there was there was who was being promoted as being artisanal, when in reality, you know, the people who are who've been saying, making your food for how many generations have been immigrants, the people sewing clothing, not just in the US, but all over the world are predominantly people of color. And suddenly, because you're manufacturing, like, you know, you're an American, you're a white woman, you're sewing your own clothes, that that's artisanal, whereas everything else is just manufactured, when in reality, there is very little mechanization in production that for the most part, the things that we consume to this day are, especially on a daily basis. So clothing, food, there are still a hand involved in it. And that hand is often a hand belonging to a person of color.
Stephanie Eche 09:31
Yeah, that brings in like, economy of scale capitalism, like trade, and I think like imperialism and colonialism also into all of that. So yeah, I'm gonna chew on that for a little bit. You write in your introduction to your new book, This Long Thread: Woman of Color on Craft, Community and Connection, about how your own experiences, both in person and online inspired the survey and the book, and you just share it some more of those experience, but was there a particular moment when you were like I have to make this book happen?
Jen Hewett 10:05
Yes, in 2019, some stuff erupted online around first around a white knitter and then around the larger knitting community about about racism, about people of color, feeling excluded, tokenized not seen when they were. And when they were seen, they were being tokenized. And there was this huge internet pile on specific people, and then it spilled over to specific companies. And, I write this in the book that in the very beginning, I noticed that, you know, there were really thoughtful criticisms coming from people of color, sharing their experiences, talking about the ways that they've been not seen or overly seen in terms of profiling in stores, etc. And I took those to heart. And then on the other hand, there were white women who were coming in and just like, piling on for the sake of piling on, like they were, they were outraged that they learned about this thing that was happening, and they wanted to express their outrage. And I had this, you know, this aha moment where I thought, but it's not just this one person. It's not just this one company. And yes, these people in these companies are part of a larger community, a larger industry, but also examine what you're consuming, examine what your own circles look like, how diverse are they? How inclusive, are they? And I thought, but I'm looking at my own circles. And I see that those are diverse and inclusive, and how do I highlight the voices of people of color who are doing this work? How do I highlight the fact that the industry isn't all about, you know, white women of means knitting or sewing or quilting, that there's this much richer tapestry of folks who are doing this work, who are left out of the narrative, left out of the dominant narrative, even though they're an important part of the narrative. So, as I started talking about that, as I started really thinking about it, I realized that what I wanted to do was write a book that would focus on people of color in the US and Canada who are doing this work. And not just, you know, I got a review of my book on a blog, and a lot of people were chiming in, like, oh, yes, I'm so excited. The Gee's Ben quilts, and the quilters of Gee's Bend really changed my perspective, which is fantastic. I'm glad to hear that. But it shouldn't take like a quilting community that has museum shows and gallery representation for you to appreciate the work of people of color. And so what I wanted to do was not focus on the big names, the names that we've all heard about, who get a lot of increasingly more play in the national narrative, and deservedly so. Right? I wanted to focus on people who are doing this just every day as a hobby, or who are trying to make it a business and who are grappling with forces like racism and capitalism and overwork. And how do you grow business smartly, people with day jobs, who are actually really serious artists on the side, like, these are the people I wanted to talk about. And it felt like the survey was the best way to get those folks. And then I did interviews too. But I really started out by thinking, okay, a survey, much like the book, women in clothes, which is a book I adore, that was that was a way to reach a lot more people than I could reach, you know, by emailing each one of them directly. So in 2019, when all that stuff started swirling around, I thought, okay, this is actually- people are ready to talk, people haven't been asked, and now they're being asked, and now they have a lot to say. So how can I- How can I crystallize all of this into a into a book?
Stephanie Eche 13:59
It's funny that you bring up the Gee's Bend quilts, because I feel like I get certain references to my art all the time and they're like the same five references. And it's like, I don't know, it's with art history, in particular, like trying to fit within the canon, but also having this whole other universe of artists who you know of and then having to like, educate people both on that, but then also know of everyone in the canon or like everyone who you're supposed to learn about in art history, is, I think, like an extra burden of people of color working in, in craft or the art world because it's like you, you appreciate the people who are known in this world. But like, you also want to continue to open up the conversation about who can be talked about but there's still that reality that certain people are only going to know certain people and it's just really, I think, unfair to all the other people working in, in the art world. Like I had a conversation actually, with someone about how this is kind of a tangent but basically like who's allowed whose art is okay to be destroyed? And like how? Like, we think like, oh, wouldn't it be a shame if this famous piece of art was destroyed? And my response is like, well, isn't it a shame that all these other pieces of art have been destroyed and that we don't even know about them. So I don't really care if like, the Mona Lisa is destroyed. And I'm not saying that I think we should destroy the Mona Lisa. But it's just we, the people in power have decided, what is accepted and what is good and what is like the best. And we don't even know a lot of the things that were also really amazing because because of just whoever was in power, usually the person with money, destroying it, like actually just destroying it. And in researching my own, like family background, and I'm Mexican, so like untangling all of that, it's like, there's so much that isn't even known because it just wasn't documented or researched in the same way that European art history and craft also has been documented and, and researched. And like you can find books about like this particular type of embroidery, whereas with other other parts of the world and other other peoples, you just you can't even find that, which I think is really upsetting.
Jen Hewett 16:10
Well, and often it may be it was documented, right? Maybe those communities have their own way of documenting and passing down that tradition. But when you eradicate those communities, then you lose that knowledge as well.
Stephanie Eche 16:23
Yeah, definitely. And, and also the perspective of like, who was doing the documenting and what was considered preserved, I guess, like, if textiles are often considered, and I think kind of unfairly so but is something domestic, it only exists in the home, or it's something that women do only. And your artwork lives both in, in the home and outside of the home. And like all around when people are wearing it, like I'm wearing this is this is your work. And as I was wondering if you consider yourself an artist working in public space, and if so, why and if not, why not?
Jen Hewett 16:59
I mean, I'll backtrack and say that I don't think it's unfair to think of textiles as existing within the domestic sphere, I don't actually think there's anything wrong with anything existing within the domestic sphere. It is, you know, just because it's a world that's dominated by women doesn't make it lesser than. And so when I think about my work, you know, existing within the domestic sphere, so pillows, bedding, dish towels, I think that's actually, you know, it's pretty exciting. It's pretty exciting to be allowed into someone's home, someone's personal space, or even, you know, to be adorning somebody's body, I think that's a great, a great honor and a great tribute. For someone to think about that. Or to wear my own things. I don't think we necessarily think that hard about what we're wearing and why. But, you know, for that scarf to be something you grabbed today and tied around your neck, like, that's an honor to me. And so, do I think of myself as a public- my work existing in the public sphere? I mean, it depends on what you think what you classify the public sphere as. Someone walking around with a scarf that I made outdoors. Is that public? I think so. You know, and I've heard stories, friends went to Rhinebeck, which is the sheep and wool festival here in the Hudson Valley. And they saw five different women wearing one of the scarves I've made, like that's and they noticed it, that's pretty exciting. But I don't know if that's like any more or less public than, say, a museum, which to be honest, like, I'm not a fine artist, my work probably would not end up in a museum. Maybe one day it will be in the Design Museum. But a fine art museum, no, you know, that's not the destination of my work. But do I think that my work impacts a lot of people? And yes, I do. Actually, I think that in a way, you go to a museum and you see something there once a year, twice a year, if you're an artist, maybe every week, but if you're not an artist, you're still a consumer of art, you may be just don't think of yourself as a consumer of art. And so something that I have made is something that you're using, and you look at it every day, that has like a real tactile meaning to you, in a way that say a sculpture that you see like I mean, a Rodin sculpture, The Thinker, which there are zillions of them around the world, but that you may see, you know, it's a thing you see you walk away from, you might not think about it until you encounter it again.
Stephanie Eche 19:32
Do you categorize things as either art or craft? Or do you consider something as both or does it just depend on what it is?
Jen Hewett 19:41
I think it depends on what it is, you know, I think they overlap in a lot of ways and I think in many ways, you can't have art without craft because there's a pretty high level of craft and skill that goes into making a piece of art. But not all craft is art. For example, quilting, I think there are people who are highly highly skilled quilters, or knitters, who are maybe making some choices about fabric. But if they're following a pattern, I think that's that's more craft than art, that point at which you're starting to make something that is fully an expression of your, your interests and your skill and your vision that makes it art. But I could be wrong. I mean, I have friends who say no, anybody who makes a thing is an artist. I don't know if that's I don't know that. I believe that. But I do think that anybody who makes art in a concerted way, in a studied way, is heavily involved in craft, and anybody who makes anything at all with any kind of skill is also involved in craft.
Stephanie Eche 20:51
Yeah, I like the way you put it up making something that's expressively their own art. It's, it's kind of going off the pattern. Yeah, I also have no idea. I thought about it a lot.
Jen Hewett 21:05
Paint by Numbers is fantastic. It's a lot of people love doing it. And you can mix around the colors and not use the colors the way that they're intended to and swap number 19 for a different color. Is that is that art? I don't know, you know, but I know that painting by numbers, the way that you're supposed to is not art, it might not even be craft.
Stephanie Eche 21:30
Yeah, it's something I remember talking to someone about and they were an artist, or consider themselves an artist and a crafter. And it was like, not understanding why someone wouldn't make their own coloring book, you know, like, all you have to do is draw lines, and then you can color in it and it's kind of that maybe that difference of are you drawing your own lines? Or are you coloring inside of someone else's lines. But of course, there's plenty of artists who color inside someone else's lines and are considered artists. So that's where I think it gets kind of confusing.
Jen Hewett 22:00
It's a total aside about coloring books, I learned from somebody who was a preschool teacher, preschool and kindergarten teacher, that coloring books actually serve a really important motor skill function, which is that how kids learn how to hold crayons and pencils correctly when before they go to school. So coloring within the lines is actually training your hand to be able to do that motion and control your motion. And when kids don't do a lot of that anymore, because they're on their devices a lot like really little kids and she said she had noticed a change over the last few years where kids come into kindergarten not having colored. So she has to get out the coloring sheets, which she hates for these kids because they can't actually learn how to write until they've learned how to control their hands.
Stephanie Eche 22:49
Wow, that's so interesting. And kind of depressing. But everyone should make sure if they're hanging out with kids, they color with them. What's your favorite way to wear a scarf?
Jen Hewett 23:04
Oh my gosh. I mean, I'm I'm always tying them around my neck. I lived in San Francisco for 25 years. It's cold there. It's like this damp cold that even now living here in the Hudson Valley, I can't adequately explain just how cold San Francisco can be.
Stephanie Eche 23:20
Sorry, that's so funny to me. Because it is different. It's different.
Jen Hewett 23:23
And you're cold inside your house in San Francisco. Like everything is drafty and thin and the heating is terrible. So I always wore a scarf around my neck there even in the summer because the summer would be like 55 degrees and foggy and it's a horrible damp, cold. And so my little like my little 22 inch scarves with like the one you're wearing right now, those are perfect for days when it's not too cold. You just need something light to keep like the draft from getting into your shirt. And then I have a longer scarf which I wear actually even now even though it's 21 degrees today, I will wear that looped around my neck a couple of times, even when I go outside just because it keeps me warm and toasty. I have very short hair now but when I had longer hair I might wear a scarf is a headband or to tie my hair back but now that my hair is very short, I just use barrettes for that.
Stephanie Eche 24:18
Is that how the scarves came about by just you needing one yourself?
Jen Hewett 24:22
I'm that kid who in college did study abroad and I went to France and French women always wear scarves. And so I got in the habit of doing that. And then I came back and it was that that obnoxious college student who was always wearing like a little scarf around her neck. But I never fell out of the habit of that partly because I wear the same clothes all the time. And just changing up my scarf makes me feel like I have a different outfit.
Stephanie Eche 24:46
I usually would, well when I lived in San Francisco, I would buy scarves at different vintage stores or thrift, they were really thrift stores, and then there were the vintage stores. That's where I would usually get them so it was exciting when when I saw that you had new ones that were still beautiful and very unique made by you. I like the scarves but I also sometimes I'm like, oh, is this I don't know. I wish more people wore scarves, I guess.
Jen Hewett 25:11
I do too. I would, I would sell a lot more scarves. But also you wouldn't feel weird being the one person like walking around, for example, me in the Hudson Valley walking around with like a little scarf around my neck in the fall.
Stephanie Eche 25:25
We'll just make it a thing. We'll make it a new, a new, a new old trend. In your book, This Long Thread, there are a lot of stories about artists learning crafts from their elders and finding a deeper connection to their craft after researching their own family histories. I've learned to sew and crochet from my Nana. And I was wondering if you think generational knowledge is passed down through craft, and then also how you think the internet has affected this particularly among people of color?
Jen Hewett 26:09
Hmm, I definitely think it is something that's passed down through craft, I think craft and cooking. I think honestly, those are the things that when you come to this country, regardless of you know, whether you're a refugee or an immigrant or an enslaved person, often those are the things that you're allowed to keep you're allowed to keep your food, you're allowed to keep your craft, right. And so when you lose your food and you lose your craft, you lose part of your connection to your ancestors. But I also think that in many ways craft is community that it's the way much in the same way that cooking and eating together are craft, particularly for women. I think Chawne Kimber talks about it in the book, in her interview, and then also, Shahnaz Khan that Chawne's family, the women would that was their form of entertainment, right, they would get together and they would work on a huge quilt together and they would all quilt somebody piece together. And they would gossip. And then Shahnaz Khan too, her Greek grandmother would not have enough candles to embroider at night, which was her only time that she could she had to herself. So she would get all the get all the neighbor ladies together to bring their candles out and they would all bring all their candle LEDs and would be able to, to embroider together by candlelight. And so I think I think that these are, you know, this is how knowledge gets passed. And a lot of the knowledge that gets passed is like, quite honestly, gossip, which is really important in societal cohesion is gossip, you know, it gets poo pooed because it's what women do. But actually like how, how much do we learn about dynamics and how to interact with people and how not to behave except through, like, through gossip? So yes, I think that act of doing something with our hands and just talking, that's a way that a lot of generational knowledge is passed down.
Stephanie Eche 28:08
And with the internet being a place where there are millions, billions of craft communities, where all types of people from all over the world are able to connect in these ways that we never have before. Do you think that's overall a positive thing or a negative thing? Or neither?
Jen Hewett 28:28
No, I think it's a net positive, because we're able to learn more from different types of people. And we're exposed to hopefully, I mean, if you're an open minded, curious person, you're exposed to a lot more craft and a lot more different experiences than maybe you would have found in your own community. Now what you do with that is the question, do you appropriate it, you know, there's definitely a lot of that happening, or do you appreciate it, and acknowledge that not everything is for you to take. But also you can learn how to develop your own skills, like a lot of the work that I have done as an artist, a lot of the way that I've gotten better and I've developed my voice has been to be exposed to other types of work, that aren't necessarily surface design that aren't printmaking, in fact, like I unfollowed, a bunch of print makers, because I didn't want to be overly influenced by their work, right, that I wanted to be able to continue to do my own thing. But taking in all these different inputs from other places, and other people has definitely influenced the kind of work that I do. Do I make it my own? Absolutely, yes. But is it important to have curiosity about the world and about its people? Absolutely.
Stephanie Eche 29:47
Do you think though that, like the way Search Engine Optimization works, and just kind of who's more likely to be found online, can kind of push you more and more into like a similar community or I mean Instagram's, a great example of that of like, if you start liking something or watching something, you're going to see more things like that which might push you down more more of a silo as opposed to like, I feel like you just even with the internet, you have to continue to make an effort to be curious about lots of different things, right, instead of just like kind of being directed, I think that's kind of like the big, the big gap of what I've seen a lot of people do. It's like, they're only they're only aware of certain things, because they're only searching for certain things basically.
Jen Hewett 30:37
Or they're not searching. So the question is, are you an active or a passive consumer? You know, being active means that you're actually searching out the answers, and looking for information and looking for artists. And being passive means that you're just taking whatever the algorithm serves you. And, you know, I, I know that there are a lot of passive consumers of media out there who think that they're active, and are kind of at the mercy. Their knowledge is at the mercy of what the algorithm wants to feed them. Does that make things worse? Yeah, absolutely. Is technology to blame for that? A lot of it? Yes. But technology is also preying on things that I think are innate to us, culturally, for example, racism, you know, distrust of science, anti intellectualism, like, these are all things that existed before the internet came along. And the internet just happens to be exploiting because it's good for business. But I think it really depends on what type of a person and what type of a consumer you are.
Stephanie Eche 31:43
So I came across an interview you did with Lisa Congdon on her podcast, which I'll link to in the show notes, and you talk about boundaries and making the work you want to make, how do you decide when something is worth making? And how do you know when it's time to move on?
Jen Hewett 31:59
Oh, and I decided something is worth making, because I want to do it. To be honest, some of the best work I've done and some of the work that has led to the most other work and most projects and like money in the long term is work that I did, because I just wanted to do, I just wanted to do it. And then I know when it's time to get to move on, when I'm tired of something. My decision, and I talked about this in my interview with Lisa, too, is that I want to have some fun while I'm doing this. And so I take on the kind of work that I want to do. And I walk away from projects, you know, after after I've given them my all, I walk away from them, when when I'm no longer interested in doing them, or when I feel like I'm done. I never want to be that artist who makes the same work for the rest of her life.
Stephanie Eche 32:49
Do you ever have like, multiple things that you are really into are really interested in trying? And then how do you decide which one to start with?
Jen Hewett 32:59
Oh, I do have multiple things that I want to work on. But quite often, it's a pull between commercial work, and much more like hands on fine art work. So a lot of the quilting that I do that requires me to make my own fabric and do layouts and you know, sit with something for a while, that isn't work that I'm able to do unless I block out an extended period of time to do it. Whereas the commercial work, like a lot of times, I just have to do it because it's what brings in the money and will allow me to take a month off. So there's, there's this push and pull. And I haven't really experienced that or hadn't experienced that really until the past 18 months, and not because of COVID. But because my career suddenly took off in this way that I hadn't expected it to happen all at once. And so had a lot of commercial work that I was working on. And then, but that allowed me to take off two months to move across the country. And then I have all this other commercial work that's starting up again, which will allow me to take off probably the entire month of February to work on the projects I want to work on. So you know, sometimes you just have to do less exciting work that you that you don't I want to say less exciting, cuz I love the commercial stuff. But sometimes you just have to make those sacrifices. And it's not like you can have it all at any one moment. But maybe over, you know, the span of my career. I can have it all.
Stephanie Eche 34:29
And you're also making time for the personal projects or the other. The non commercial work, so to speak, which may or may not become commercial at some point, right? Yeah. So you're prioritizing having that time to just make and that's like why you're putting in the other time to get there. I think that's really helpful advice or just nice to know because I think a lot of times when you see a successful craftsperson, it's like you think that they're like just making all the time or like, or they're just doing all these like big projects all the time, but usually it's, I feel like it's a combination of both because you have to kind of like keep feeding the machine to keep going. Are there any artists you are particularly inspired by right now?
Jen Hewett 35:18
Yes, there is a UK artist named Luna Chatterjee, who is a ceramicist. And I first became aware of her work probably a decade ago. If yeah, I remember her being featured in maybe Elle decoration UK or something like that. And I cut out, I cut out an article about her it wasn't even an article, it was just like a quarter page with a photo of her and some of her work. And I was really intrigued by her clay work. And I think at that time, she was still doing, like custom tile for home installations, I could be wrong, I have to look it up. But recently, she had a big solo show at a gallery in London, and somebody had posted about it. And I thought, oh, I know this name. And it's amazing to see how her work is evolved and it still has the same hand that it had 10 years ago, but I hadn't really thought about her work since then. And so I've been really doing this deep dive into into her path into the work that she's doing now. And it's, it's fascinating to me, I'm really excited to, to kind of rediscover it for myself. Yes, but highly, highly, highly recommend checking out her work, because it's a lot of like, it's a little bit Bauhaus. But it's not quite, she's also South Asian descent, and there's like some motifs that are very graphic and, you know, not representation at all at all, that are not that are kind of familiar with in Indian block printing. And so it's just, it's, yeah, it's this wonderful melding of all these different influences into a form that you wouldn't necessarily think of. Because it's less, it's less about ceramics and more about sculpture, although I know those overlap. Yeah.
Stephanie Eche 37:07
Awesome. I'll definitely link to her work in the show notes and check her out, because I haven't heard of her work, either. Is there any fiber or textile work in public space that you've seen that you really enjoy?
Jen Hewett 37:18
I was thinking about this, and I couldn't really I couldn't come up with anything. And I think it's partly because fiber art in a public space is a really hard thing to do, just because it's not, it's not durable in the way that like, we're used to seeing sculpture in public spaces. And that's because sculpture is kind of made for public spaces, it's made out of metal, or really hard wood or marble, and it just isn't meant to be in those spaces. Whereas textiles, because they're related to the domestic sphere, are really meant to be indoors and protected. And not handled by a lot of people handled by the same handful of people. So I couldn't really think of anything, which, you know, maybe says something about the limitations of, of my knowledge and experience there. But I wasn't able to come up with anything.
Stephanie Eche 38:09
It's something that I'm kind of researching right now, in I don't know if I'm going to do work in public space, but I consult helping artists who work in public space, and there's definitely a lot of fiber that goes on in public space, but it's normally like, spaces that are accessible to the public, but not outside, right, like because of the because things get wet. But I've seen some interesting, like, you know, using non traditional textile materials for in textile techniques, like, and I've had some ideas myself of like, what if you did like an LED sculpture that was a weaving but it was using plastic over lighting or, you know, something that could be actually protected from the elements. But I do think that's, that's probably why my question earlier about, like textiles, unfortunately, being in the domestic space, because for me, I'm like, oh, why don't I see more textiles in public space? And it's totally it's totally what you said it's totally being an elements thing, but I think we'll see more in the future at least using craft concepts in public art.
Jen Hewett 39:16
Janet Eshelman probably is the person who's maybe the most successful at this. I think her training is in architecture, so but I have I've never actually seen any of her work in person myself.
Stephanie Eche 39:28
Alright, that's we need to see more textiles and public space. How does your interaction with public space inspire your artwork?
Jen Hewett 39:37
Hmm. Well, when I was living in San Francisco, I lived a couple of blocks from Golden Gate Park and so I was in Golden Gate Park all the time. And it was, it was where I took my dog in the morning to go for a walk. It's where I would take myself in the afternoon when I was stumped and needed a break to clear my mind. It's where I watched the seasons change. So much of my work, the work that I made in San Francisco was really about my daily experiences of landscape of those very, you know, in in the Bay Area in San Francisco in particular, there's this amazing combination of very controlled landscape very constructed such as Golden Gate Park, or even the way that the streets are laid out in San Francisco in a grid where they shouldn't be because everything's hilly. And also nature, right, like, we've got the Marin Headlands, which are just this gorgeous range of mountains, welcome you into the San Francisco Bay, we have the San Francisco Bay. And then you also have like the Golden Gate Bridge on top of it, which is also this engineering structure, which is stunning. And for some reason adds to the bay adds to that vista in a way that a lot of other structures would not or do not. And so having access to those kinds of spaces really informed my process, or they were a part of my process, and they were a huge part of my inspiration, too.
Stephanie Eche 41:04
And how has your recent change in scenery affected your work?
Jen Hewett 41:07
Well, it's definitely darker here. Further north, in the winter, it's just darker. And we're not even in the winter yet. But it gets dark at 415. And so the light and the saturation that I'm used to just my work is it's got a darker, darker ground to it, I'm using a lot more dark saturated colors instead of like vivid pinks and lilacs. So we'll see also, you know, seasons, I'm not used to seasons like this. Right now, my studio is in the attics that's in the third floor of my home. And I realized last week that all the leaves had fallen off the trees, so I could actually see into my neighbor's homes. In this way I couldn't because I moved here in the summer and everything was lush, gorgeous. And there's a sense of curiosity about how is everybody else living? I can see into their homes now. And how do we feel about privacy? And are people expecting privacy? Am I allowed to like peer into people's windows surreptitiously. So it's, it's sparking all these ideas about this desire for privacy, but also a sense that maybe even when you think you're private, you're kind of on display? But none of us talk about it?
Stephanie Eche 42:23
Do you fill out more here than you did in San Francisco?
Jen Hewett 42:27
Yeah, and partly because I live in a semi rural area, whereas in San Francisco was in the heart of the city. And so in San Francisco, we just all because we were all living on top of each other, we all pretended not to see. Right? That's like part of the agreement when you're living in a city is you, you just pretend.
Stephanie Eche 42:48
You don't peek through the windows to see what someone's watching? Or maybe, maybe I do sometimes.
Jen Hewett 42:54
Whereas here, it's a little bit, you know, people are friendly, or they want to talk, they want to know your business. And so it's which I also enjoy. But it's it's a change, for sure. And so I'm not, you know, I'm not sure the rules of the place yet.
Stephanie Eche 43:11
That's really interesting. And I think probably, maybe, yes, specific to being in a more rural area than a city but also interested in like, I feel like there's always like this East Coast versus West Coast thing. And I just don't think that's true. There's so many more elements to things but like the light is, there is less light at certain parts of the year here than there is in San Francisco, or like the weather that you were talking about. I feel like when I lived in San Francisco, I always knew how to dress because I could just wear the same things all the time, even if it was like taking this jacket off and putting it back on, in the course of a day. But here, it's like I have completely different clothes that I have to put away and then take out every season, which is so weird, but normal. Have you ever created artwork specifically for public space?
Jen Hewett 44:00
Not yet.
Stephanie Eche 44:02
Would you ever be interested in doing that?
Jen Hewett 44:04
Potentially? It depends. Indoors? Yes. A lot of my work is still on such a small scale, that I'm not sure how well it would sit in a public space. But there could be a point at which I'm able to work on a larger scale. And it could sit in a public space where you know, it's visible to many. Part of the move to the Hudson Valley where I live now was really about having more space to make my work and now that I have more space really thinking about how I'm going to make- how and when I'm going to make that happen.
Stephanie Eche 44:36
That's exciting. In one of your interviews with Sonya Phillip in your book, This Long Thread, Sonya talks about the experience of like seeing clothes in Anthropology and then not really feeling like they fit her body or that they would be would be around long enough for you her to even go back to get them and just how they were kind of part of this like consumerism curated thing, which I very much have a love hate relationship with Anthropology specifically. And I was wondering now that you have your own work for sale in Anthropology, things that you've designed, how how do you feel about just kind of her experience, and then your experience now being on the other side of that?
Jen Hewett 45:34
Well, I have a really conflicted relationship with retail in many ways. Even though I am a retailer and I sell the retail, I never want to create a lot of stuff, I don't want to create, essentially things that are going to become landfill really quickly. And part of my attraction to making home goods is that there are things that are used and loved and kept around. And so I think it would be different if I had been designing fabric for clothes, really, of any brand at any price point, which by the way doesn't pay very well. Because this is really interesting, though, that doesn't pay very well, because those clothes are not meant to be on the shelves for very long wear, right? So the pace of creation is just so much faster. Whereas I created home goods, like I design fabric that is being used on furniture, on couches, on chairs, and those are the kinds of things that are around for a long time, like you, you spend $2,000 on a couch, you're probably going to have the couch for a few years. So I feel less conflict around that, you know, and same with bedsheets like we use bedsheets every single day, and we use them until they're threadbare, and they can get repurposed into a lot of quilters will make them into quilts or you can cut them up and make them into rags or into dish towels. And so I don't really have an issue with having work at Anthropology or at any of the other retailers that I work with, specifically because I'm on the other side of it, but I'm also not creating goods that I feel are highly disposable.
Stephanie Eche 47:10
And they're not going out of style every three weeks or whatever that are being like switched in and out. Yeah, I think there's some there's something timeless about your work and there are pieces that you will want in your in your home for a while not things that you're like, oh, I have to switch this out, because it's not this season anymore, or it's like, not current anymore. Yeah, I was very excited to find all of your work in I think there was a chair maybe. I think you designed fabric for a chair.
Jen Hewett 47:39
Definitely for Anthropology.
Stephanie Eche 47:41
Okay. Must be an anthropology one. Yeah. So I've been eyeing that. Maybe someone will bring it to me for Christmas. I don't know. Yeah, definitely investment pieces, which I think is awesome. Because you do live in the homes with people for a very long time. You've worked on a variety of projects with clients like licensing, artwork, designing, publishing, teaching, what's the best experience you've had working with a client?
Jen Hewett 48:07
Hmm, so one of my licensees, we were just on the same page, like we were very clear that contract negotiations were pretty straightforward. The contract was really professional. My attorney had just mild, you know, changes to make minor changes. The merchant I was working with was fantastic. The art director was very clear, they had clear style guides, really clear color palette that they wanted me to work within, or I could suggest other colors as well. But the brief was like this is supposed to be for spring. And so keep it, keep it light, keep it fun, people are just coming out of winter. And so it was just kind of a dream project to work on. And it was clear that they had done this before that they had their own internal processes that they followed, and that they also had processes they followed with their artists. And it was was just a delight.
Stephanie Eche 49:01
Do you have any tips for clients who want to hire artists for projects?
Jen Hewett 49:05
Ooh, yeah, I think to be really clear about what you want in terms of timeline. And also like rounds of review. Those are really, really important and also to building cushion for your team and your teams feedback because one of the projects that I worked on that I that didn't go quite as well, because it was on such a compressed timeline. There were a lot of shortcuts that were taken. So the design team would work really quickly to get stuff done. And then it would get to the client and the client wouldn't be able to corral everybody in order to give us timely feedback. So we had done all this work to rush things and then the client was taking their time getting back to us. And so it was it was really rough because yeah, we were just busting our butts and so was the client but also they hadn't built in. They didn't really understand how much time it would take for them to get good feedback. So timelines are super important, just the number of deliverables and really understanding and being clear with the artists or with the designers about what that means and what that will look like. And contracts are fantastic, like, have a contract and don't expect that the contract is going to be signed the next day. I tell people, you might want to think for me in two weeks, but in two weeks, we will just be getting through the contract negotiations. So, know that.
Stephanie Eche 50:31
Right? Yeah, realistic expectations. And an article in the San Francisco Chronicle, Confessions of a Multiple Career Personality, you talked about splitting your week between, what you were doing at the time, which was the business consulting. This was 2011, an article I found and then splitting your time between the business consulting and then your your art work, whether that was like personal projects, or your art business. And I was curious about when did you decide to like put it all together, and not that you're necessarily business consulting now. But like, basically use all of your skill set in one thing under one brand, and kind of full steam ahead on on everything.
Jen Hewett 51:13
So I never, I never mixed the art and the consulting, those are always two very separate things. And to the point where I didn't tell my consulting clients because I was doing HR consulting, that I was also an artist, they might find out about it might come up eventually, but I didn't tell them upfront. So that I, I was a business consultant, and HR consultant until the end of 2016. And then I quit that, because it was clear that my art career was taking off in a way that I was going to be able to support myself without the income from consulting, but I never, I never mixed the two and I never wanted to mix the two.
Stephanie Eche 51:48
You were like, okay, no more of this. And I'm just going to be focused on art, I guess that makes it easier.
Jen Hewett 51:57
So the consulting was always a means to an end, it's what I did, so that I had enough money and enough time to be an artist, because as a consultant, I could set my own hours, and I could choose my own clients. Because I work for myself, you know, I would get clients based on referrals. And I always knew that I didn't want my art to be my sole source of income in the beginning, because that would force a lot of constraints on my work on what I could do and the type of work I was doing and the type of people I was selling to. And what consulting allowed me to do was to develop a style and a voice that wasn't necessarily commercial. And I could make a lot of mistakes. I could experiment, I could do personal projects, because I wasn't relying on that for my income. So when it was time for when when I had achieved my goals, and when I was able to support myself for my work without compromising the work I was doing. I knew that I could, I could quit consulting.
Stephanie Eche 52:52
What's something you wish you had known when you first began your career?
Jen Hewett 52:55
Hmm, that the making part, the creative part would actually not be how I spent my the bulk of my day. But the bulk of my time would be spent on all kinds of other things that go into running a business, because essentially, I'm running a business.
Stephanie Eche 53:13
I guess that's what in my head, I was thinking as far as like putting it all together, like instead of using your business skills, like predominantly on HR consulting, it's like all of the things that you learned in that I'm sure go into how you run your business as far as like just things you've learned over time, even though obviously, you're not doing HR consulting, but like interacting with clients or contracts or like all those fun things that I think as a maker, you don't necessarily, it's not like you what you dream about working on a contract when you dream about being a full time artist or crafter. But that is such a big part, I think of making money off of what you make, basically.
Jen Hewett 53:51
Well, I've always thought about what I do as a business. To be honest, there was never a point at entering into this that I thought it was, you know that I was an artist and that was divorced from the money and the operational side of it. And that's because I came into this, this is like either my second or my fifth career, depending on how you look at it, that I worked in, I worked in business, I worked in education. I worked in educational nonprofits. I worked in a startup, I worked in tech, like I had all these jobs where I was not even doing creative work. I was doing operational work. And so it wasn't like I decided, okay, I've learned all this stuff from HR, and I'm going to put it into my business. It's just that all the business stuff I had learned over the years, went into my HR consulting, but it also went into my business.
Stephanie Eche 54:36
And then that business just became the only business right. That's amazing. Is there anything you've read or listened to that's inspired you recently?
Jen Hewett 54:47
Let's see, I have been listening to maintenance phase, which is a podcast which I think a lot of people listen to, because I hear references to it all the time. But it's about the wellness industry. And the way it's marketed. And it's fascinating to me, because it's really about, a lot of it is about twisting facts around, or not even twisting facts around. A lot of it's about bad research. It's about fat phobia, it's about racism and it's about using bad research to continue to have those kinds of practices. So that's been really enjoyable to listen to, because it's like heavy information. But also, it's presented in a really engaging, informative way. I'm in the middle of reading The Other Black Girl, which is a really fantastic book, I had to take a little break from it, because it's about to black women in publishing and then my book was about to come out and I thought, it's like a thriller. There's I don't know if there's a murder involved. I haven't gotten to that point yet. But it's definitely there's some kind of scandal going on. And there are lots of like threats going on. So that's been really enjoyable. And I've been reading a lot more for pleasure rather than for education lately, because you know, my days are heavy. I do a lot of stuff, the news is not great. So I'd much rather have a little escapism.
Stephanie Eche 56:10
I'll definitely link to those things in the show notes so people can check them out. Where can our listeners find you online?
Jen Hewett 56:17
My website is just my name, jenhewett.com. And that's Hewett with two E's H.E.W.E.T.T. I'm also on Instagram @jenhewett and same with Twitter. And I have a Facebook page, but I'm not I don't actively maintain it. Because there's only one me there's only so much social media I can handle. And I'm also on LinkedIn, but don't follow me on LinkedIn, or anything. And quite honestly, that's from my old consulting days back when I needed to find clients and, you know, be professional in that way that I don't feel like I have to be now I'm not going to an office. I don't find work through LinkedIn.
Stephanie Eche 57:00
Well, thank you so much for doing this interview.
Jen Hewett 57:03
Thank you!
Stephanie Eche 57:04
Great to chat. I am like halfway through your book, but I'll be sharing a review soon. It's a great gift. If anybody's looking for a gift. I'll link to it in the show notes. All right. Well, thank you again. Bye.
Jen Hewett 57:18
Bye Stephanie.
Stephanie Eche 57:20
Thanks for listening to this episode of First Coat. If you like this podcast, please leave a review. Make sure to subscribe to the First Coat Podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram @firstcoatpodcast or @distillcreative. First Coat is a production of my company Distill Creative. Check us out at distillcreative.com.