Alexandra Gonzalez on Public Space Design & Working with Artists - Ep 16
This week on First Coat we have Alexandra Gonzalez. Alexandra is the President and Co-Founder of Hive Public Space, a Women-led urban design and placemaking start-up based in New York City. She is an architect, urban designer, entrepreneur and activist with experience working with private, public and non-profit sectors. She is committed to designing sustainable and resilient public spaces that are socially and culturally inclusive.
In this episode we talk about starting our own businesses, public space design, the bathrooms at Bryan Park, and how Hive Public Space works with artists for art in public space projects.
This interview was recorded in April 2021.
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Guest | Alexandra Gonzalez, President & Co-Founder of Hive Public Space
Alexandra is the President and Co-Founder of Hive Public Space, a Women-led urban design and placemaking start-up based in New York City. She is an architect, urban designer, entrepreneur and activist with experience working with private, public and non-profit sectors. She is committed to designing sustainable and resilient public spaces that are socially and culturally inclusive.
She is the former Senior Urban Designer for both the Bryant Park Corporation and the 34th Street Partnership in Manhattan, NY. At this role, she was part of a multidisciplinary team responsible for the management, design and operation of Bryant Park and other plazas in the Midtown Area.
Alexandra believes in the power of public spaces and strives for her work to create memories and connections while evolving the impact and business of design. She received both a Bachelor of Fine Arts and a Bachelor of Architecture from Rhode Island School of Design and holds a Master of Science in Architecture and Urban Design from Columbia University in New York. She is the current Design Fellow at the Design Trust for Public Spaces and core-organizer for Design as Protest.
Find Alexandra on Instagram @hivepublicspace, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn.
Your Host | Stephanie Eche, CEO & Founder of Distill Creative
Stephanie Eche is an artist and art consultant based in Brooklyn, NYC.
Follow Stephanie on Instagram (@distillcreative or @stephanie_eche), Twitter (@stephanie_eche), YouTube (Distill Creative), LinkedIn, and check out her art website.
Support First Coat by backing us on our Patreon.
Learn more about Distill Creative’s services for real estate developers.
Are you an artist? Sign up for our Distill Directory and you’ll be considered for art commissions and future projects.
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TRANSCRIPT
Stephanie Eche 00:02
Welcome to First Coat, where we explore public realm art, how it's made and why it matters. I'm your host, Stephanie Eche, an artist and entrepreneur based in Brooklyn, New York. I run Distill Creative, where I curate and produce site-specific art projects for real estate developers. I focus on creating more equitable and inclusive projects, and I want to get more exposure for the artists and developers doing this work. This week on First Coat we have Alexandra Gonzales. Alexandra is the president and co-founder of Hive Public Space, a Women-lead urban design and placemaking startup based in New York City. She is an architect, urban designer, entrepreneur and activist with experience working with private, public and nonprofit sectors. She is committed to designing sustainable and resilient public spaces that are socially and culturally inclusive. In this episode, we talk about starting our own businesses, public space design, the bathrooms at Bryant Park, and how Hive Public Space works with artists for art in public space projects. Here's our conversation.
Stephanie Eche 01:04
Welcome to First Coat, thank you so much, Alexa, for being here today. Could you tell us a little bit about who you are?
Alexandra Gonzalez 01:10
Yes, first of all, thank you so much for having me, I'm so excited to be here, and to get to talk to you, such a treat. I love that question, that this idea of who you are, because it's one question that, you know, my answer has evolved so much throughout the years. I think for me, I used to only focus on my professional, academic side as to like that I was sort of who I am, and I think the more that I've grown, I think now I also include my personal identity and then talking about, you know, I'm a woman, I'm an immigrant, I'm a person of color, and how all of those things really solidify in my work, and kind of are the reason why I am what I am and the work that I do. I'm an architect, I am an urban designer, I am an activist, I'm an artist, and I'm an entrepreneur, so I wear a lot of hats often changing throughout the day. You know, having my own business, I think that's part of the beauty of it, that you have to learn and evolve and be sort of thrown into things that you had no idea that you had to do before. I, you know, I just love public spaces and I think that's, that's where I am.
Stephanie Eche 02:26
Thank you.
Alexandra Gonzalez 02:27
Yeah!
Stephanie Eche 02:27
It's great to hear that answer from you. Particularly from you and also I feel like I can really relate in, you know, you get asked a lot, or I guess we used to get asked in person at things, ‘what do you do?’ Sometimes I think that puts us in a box, like immediately.
Alexandra Gonzalez 02:43
Yes, and trying to find yourself kind of answering, like the elevator pitch of who you are. And I think all of the complexities and all of the things that make us who we are, are part of that, right? The little things that bring in different layers and different things that, how we see the world and how we live and experience the world that are so so important.
Stephanie Eche 03:05
Have you been finding that you've been giving more of a, I guess, pluralistic approach to who you are, as opposed to saying just one thing?
Alexandra Gonzalez 03:13
I think I always force that answer to do, kind of give it more than just one thing. And it has to do because my education is, it has evolved so much, so I have a Fine Arts and an Architecture background and then I went to grad school for urban design. So it has, you know, kind of within the same realm, but still evolved a little bit, that I always feel the need to kind of at the very least name those three disciplines. So I kind of try to keep it even if they were to ask me, ‘what is it that you do?’ It's so complex, because, you know, Hive is kind of a complex organism.
Stephanie Eche 03:50
How did you first start working in public space?
Alexandra Gonzalez 03:53
So I think I knew that I wanted to work in urban design before I knew what urban design really was, to be honest with you. I think it was, I really love this idea of loving the on tangible things that happen because of public spaces, right? So the idea of the connections and the memories and the stories that take place because of this one thing was something that I was always really interested in. And how do you kind of solidify those things, or how do you allow for more of those good things to happen? So I started with, you know, going to, come into New York, first of all, and going to Columbia for urban design school.
Stephanie Eche 04:31
Where did you move to New York from?
Alexandra Gonzalez 04:34
So I'm originally from Colombia. So I grew up in beautiful Medellin, Colombia, a beautiful city in a valley, kind of an amazing case study for urban design as is. Again, all of that, it comes into all of the design that I do. And then I went to Rhode Island School of Design, so I was in Providence for a little over five years and then I moved to New York to urban design and then kind of being forced, not forced, but being introduced suddenly to such a huge city as New York and know the complex systems that are happening all at once, it was truly fantastic for me, and I was so excited to be part of all of that. Soon after grad school, I started working for city planning. So I was part of a publication called the Active Design, Shaping the Sidewalk Experience. So it was a publication that was led by Skye Duncan, with super talented Skye Duncan, who is now the director of NACTO. And I think something that was really interesting is that it was kind of going back to that idea of understanding the experience, that to me was very important, and that I was unable at that point, still to sort of figure out exactly what it was that I wanted it to capture. And then I went to Bryant Park. So I was at Bryant Park for quite some time. I was there for about eight and a half years, actually. So as you can imagine, that's such an amazing lab, right? You really get to try so many things and it's a constant conversation, because you put something out, and then the public is reacting to it, and it's a great audience, as well. So, it’s a dreamland for a designer. So yeah, and then, you know, I think, here we are 10 years after and we have Hive Public Space.
Stephanie Eche 06:27
How did you start Hive Public Space?
Alexandra Gonzalez 06:30
So my, this was interesting. So my co-founder and I, we started about five years, and it was sort of our head project, kind of freelance, whatever, you know, our baby that we did on the side, and it kind of started for, because we felt that there was a need for companies that would understand all aspects of publics. So there was a niche, and there was a, you know, group of friends that would focus purely on the programming aspects. Others would do more of the management, financial and sponsorship, and then you have the designers, right? Often super divorced from operational needs and in the programming side. For us, it was like how do we make sure that we bring in all of these things to the table and that we are responding to all very important aspects of public spaces. So that's kind of how we started. In terms of the name, what’s really funny is that, at the beginning, when we were trying to establish the values and what Hive was, we kept asking ourselves what is something that is dynamic, and that is transformative and there's a lot of things that are working at play to make this larger product, and then my co-founder was like, ‘oh, what about a hive?’ And it was literally one of the first names that we came up with and here we are.
Stephanie Eche 07:56
So you said you started about five years ago, how has this past year been going?
Alexandra Gonzalez 08:00
I think for me, the pandemic kind of really crystallized the importance of public spaces. I mean, we saw it firsthand, especially being here in New York City where we don't have a backyard or a lot of private spaces, and a lot of people don't even have a balcony or any of that, so our public spaces became so vital to our mental health, our physical health and so many other things. So I think at that point, when I felt like that now it was a time for me to transition full time. So as I left Bryant Park end of August and have now been working full time on hive, so the scale of the project that we're now working on, obviously, now having more bandwidth that we can do bigger projects and take on more. So it's been great kind of even adapting to that change, because that's a big change to go from just a side project to suddenly be in your full time job. But it's been a lot of fun and I think that's important. Just try to find joy in the work that we do is just so critical these days.
Stephanie Eche 09:08
Well, congratulations. That's a big job. And especially right now, when everything’s so uncertain.
Alexandra Gonzalez 09:12
Thank you! Yes! Absolutely. And it still is, it's kind of a scary one. But I think it was kind of the right thing to do. I think for me it's just growing and I think you kind of have to evolve and try different things out, and we've been lucky with the project that we've been working on, we have a lot of interesting things coming out this summer, so we're excited.
Stephanie Eche 09:36
I think also for anyone listening who is thinking about starting their own business, art project or whatever it is, I also started doing what I'm doing now full time when I was working for someone else full time so it started as a side business or a side, I kind of hate the word side hustle, but it basically started as a hobby honestly for my project or what is now my business, but I was working full time as placemaking manager for Vornado/Charles E. Smith and then JBG Smith in Washington, DC, and I was doing workshops on the side, basically craft workshops, and then that kind of evolved into Distill Creative, but I think it's really important to just start doing whatever you want to be doing while you have a paycheck. Because the financial realities of running your own business are very terrifying and if you have no idea how you're going to make that income before you leave your day job, I think it's even scarier. So, that's really awesome to hear that you were doing it on the side for a while, as well. I just hear a lot from other people, like, how did you start? And it's like, well, I just started, and then eventually, I got people to pay me money and then I was able to kind of do it on my own.
Alexandra Gonzalez 10:52
Absolutely, no, yeah. And I think that's very important that people don't just think that, you know, our companies just emerge out of nowhere, and that everything was thought out like, yes, but it has been an evolution and it's been baby steps along the way and learning and often own learning too, right? There's things that we bring from our past jobs that we want to make sure that we are changing now that we have that opportunity to do that. So for me, that's also very important. Like how do I make sure that I, I can bring in the good lessons from my past work experience, and then I can kind of infuse new ones into the mix to make it better? Yeah, it’s super important.
Stephanie Eche 11:34
For sure. I love learning on someone else's dime, so all my past jobs were great ways to learn. I also think saving money was something I did before I started my own business and that's another thing when people ask me, it's like, well, I was able to make the jump because I had money in the bank and for me, I don't, my family doesn't have, you know, they're not going to fund my business, they don't fund my life and so for me to know that I would be okay even if I didn't get a client immediately was really important to me and I think for other like, if you don't come from a wealthy family, basically, I think it's really important to be realistic about your financial situation.
Alexandra Gonzalez 12:14
Yeah, no, for sure having financial safety nets, because you might get a client one month, and you might not get it the next month, so I think even just the understanding that it will be a bit of a roller coaster, and that there will be good months and bad months and being able to adjust for that and have a peace of mind that you're not really going to be worrying about, really all the financial stuff. That's key for sure. So thanks for sharing that, too!
Stephanie Eche 12:42
Yeah, just want to bring it up, because I think, again, it always sounds really glamorous, like, ‘oh, I just love my job and I started my own business and I make art’ and I think that that is a great thing to aspire to, but being realistic is really important and I also don't want people to be like, ‘oh, I'm not doing it right’. It is hard, you're probably doing it right and you'll get there if you want to do something similar.
Alexandra Gonzalez 13:05
Yeah. And I think we all, we're all very different as well. So there is no perfect blueprint that would, you know, fit everyone, I think you have to trust yourself and you have to also make sure you have a good network around you that is going to support you, that's also key.
Stephanie Eche 13:22
For sure. Can you tell us what placemaking is? And what place keeping is and what terms are you using these days?
Alexandra Gonzalez 13:31
Well, depends who you ask, what placemaking is, right? I can tell you what I think it is for me and the way we apply it at Hive. For us, it's all about connection, honestly, I think- language is very important, also and I think that's why often I have issues with the idea, with the word ‘placemaking’, or the term placemaking as a discipline. But again, it's already hard enough as is without even getting into the connotations about the word that still a lot of people don't understand what placemaking or whatever we want to call it is. I think it should be about connections and it shouldn't necessarily assume that some of those elements do not already exist in the community. So to me, it's about asking the right questions, finding out the right people, because I can almost guarantee you that there will be someone that has either done what you're looking for or thought about what you're doing and they have a better understanding because they've been thinking about it longer than you have. So for us, it's a very, we're researching the beginning of every project. It's a lot of trying to figure out who's there, what have they done, can we connect with them. Our work is very collaborative in nature and I think that's also very key when it comes to public spaces. The more that you’re rooted in the community, the more impactful the piece is going to be. So, for us it's about making connections and allowing for things to grow and evolve.
Stephanie Eche 15:01
I love that answer. Yeah, totally depends on the crowd.
Alexandra Gonzalez 15:06
Totally depends on the crowd.
Stephanie Eche 15:07
Hard to explain, and I think that that's what makes the ‘what do you do’ question even harder sometimes. What do you think makes a resilient and inclusive public space?
Alexandra Gonzalez 15:17
I think one that is rooted in the community. So I think it goes back to really understanding its site and being able to transform based on the needs. So honestly, in my opinion, a successful public space is one that can adapt to today's needs. So if today, we needed to be a vaccination center, we can be a vaccination center, if we needed to be a voter registration place, we're going to do that. But we can also do a farmers market and we can also do yoga classes. So I think evolving and transforming, it's, to me, it's key in a lot of these spaces. I think, we tend to think that is all about the design, right? So you have to have the most luxurious landscape architects or architects, or urban designers, or it's all about the programming, and you really don't have to invest anything in this space. And no, it's really a very, like, there needs to be a harmony between the programming design, but also the operational aspects that are so key. So somehow trying to manage a good balance between all of those, I think is really what makes a good public space and if you feel safe somewhere, then you're going to create more memories, you're going to spend more time there, you're probably going to stay longer, so that means you're probably going to spend some money, and you're going to then amplify and help the small business and the area or the street vendor. So all of these things are just part of this universe, that public spaces are. They’re just so many things at once, but I think that's what's beautiful about them.
Stephanie Eche 17:06
Are there any elements of a public space that you think are like, ‘every public space must have these things’?
Alexandra Gonzalez 17:12
I think there needs to be basics of accessibility, to start, right? We should all be able to access and use all of the elements within that, within the space. So that's sort of step one. And we shouldn't amplify or say that it's a great space, because there's a ramp or is a great, like, that's the bare minimum. So that's step one and I think we often do that. So I think being safe and also accommodating that, you know, our needs are very different, you know, the needs of the child or the needs of a woman, the needs of an older person are different. So, having a good balance, where we can understand and accommodate to different ages and you know, abilities, it's so important. So I think that's what's kind of the key.
Stephanie Eche 17:59
One thing that I think about in what a public space needs is a public bathroom, which Bryant Park, it's like, every time I have someone in town, I'm like we have to go see this amazing public bathroom because it's not only beautiful and well designed, and I think there are flowers in there often, but it's also, it's not policed, I would say. Anyone can use it. It's open, actually, to the public, maybe they have hours, but I think that is such an amazing thing that Bryant Park does very well. Can you talk a little bit about that and if there are any behind the scenes things we don't know about the restrooms.
Alexandra Gonzalez 18:37
Yes! So that was a really fun project. Actually, one of my favorite projects would be in Bryant Park. And so it was challenging because it was essentially an interior design project, because the structure itself, it's a landmark building, so we were only allowed to work within the constraints of the existing building. But Bryant Park, like you were saying, even the design before, we have a high pedestrian count, so our numbers are quite up there. I believe we have over a million visitors a year just for the bathroom alone. And those change, of course, but I think what was important is that everyone would feel welcome and that would feel like they were safe and they were, they were allowed to be there and they wanted it to be there. In addition to making sure that we were using the right materials and the right things that would able to kind of withstand the use and the abuse, honestly, sometimes that the public gets. It was important to kind of keep the soft touches that are so critical, right? So we wanted to make sure that there was always classical music, so there was always music in the background. There's always an attendee on site that is cleaning and making sure that everything is in place and it's impeccable at all times. There are always fresh flowers, like you said, that is something that was very important as well. And then we also had artwork. So, some of the artwork that was coming from our artists and residency programs, we were kind of displaying it and it was a bit of a tiny gallery in that sense. So all of these tiny things are exactly, like everyone that I hear, like, they love the bathroom and it's so odd to think that someone could like a bathroom in a public space. Because that's sort of the one, the first thing that you're like, I don't want to use a public bathroom. But somehow challenging that in starting with solving the main problem that most people do not even want to tackle, because it's so big. So chipping at it away in little pieces just really comes a long way.
Stephanie Eche 18:42
And that also was probably a budget line item.
Alexandra Gonzalez 19:31
Yes, yes. So that's what, so one of the great things about Bryant Park is that, you know, everything is down in house, and we have a very, they have a very multidisciplinary approach to everything as well, so the operations department was also very, we were working hand in hand with bathroom attendees. So I was really asking them questions, asking them how how do they clean certain things? How did they do this? So I'm directly understanding and having all the knowledge that comes with not just being there, but how is the process going to be? Because I think in public spaces, specifically, because there's so many people that are interacting, it's important to design thinking as a process and not as a product. So you're not thinking that this is what I did and then I can step away, but you're thinking that that's just kind of a milestone within the process itself. And it makes it better, because then it's a conversation as opposed to just being like, this is a ‘hopefully it works’ thing, you'd sort of step away.
Stephanie Eche 22:01
Yeah, ‘bye good luck’.
Alexandra Gonzalez 22:02
Yes, ‘good luck, hope it works’. It's great to just be able to do that and that was just really great, I'm really grateful to have worked on that one.
Stephanie Eche 22:12
So how do you work with clients now as Hive Public Space?
Alexandra Gonzalez 22:16
So, our clients come from, so we work with either city agencies or real estate developers, or sometimes community organizations, because really, our only thing is, it has to be a public space, but we can touch on so many different aspects of it. Often, we do more than one thing. So, as I was mentioning, we're really big on understanding the who’s and the what is it that you're trying to get out of the space. So a lot of our conversations at the beginning are trying to find out what the client wants today, what they want in five years and what they want in 10. More often than not especially now, I think, when they do come to us, they’re already thinking that they want a financially sustainable public space, which is great, that's what we all want, but you have to sort of adjust the expectations, that's not something you can just achieve on day one, by designing it a certain way. It takes a lot more work than that. So a lot of it is an educational process, to be honest with you, in telling the client, yes, maybe we're, yes, we are going to achieve that, but in order to do that, we have to do X, Y, and Z. Giving a realistic expectation is just so key, because you want to make sure that you adapt to that. And also like I was saying, it's important to us to be a process, so we sort of define what our scope is. More often than not, what's interesting is, once we are able to educate the client, as to all the other stuff, our scope tends to always kind of increase, which is beautiful in that nature. That's just the dream, to be able to have, you know, add a little bit more. But I think it makes a big impact and I think for us truly the most important part out of every single one of our projects is how can we make the biggest impact possible with our work. That's why we always bring in different people into every project, because I think every project is unique and has its own set of problems and concerns. So I know that I have to bring in different people to kind of fit in and help me tackle specific things.
Stephanie Eche 24:33
How do you budget for that? I guess, how do you start working with a client? Do you start with like an initial proposal type thing and then once you understand their needs, give them like a full proposal with more robust numbers that can actually accommodate for all of the things you're going to need to hire out for.
Alexandra Gonzalez 24:50
Yeah, so I usually kind of try to break it down into categories, right. So I come in and I tell them, we're going to do three categories for you. Let's say it's the urban analysis portion, right. And then we can do the, usually is like design audit or urban design. So we can get as, that’s sort of our forte, right, that's our area of expertise. So we can get as intricate in terms of, we can design the whole thing or we can serve as a design audit for an existing landscape that they have, or if the place already exists, and it's just about making edits. And then we can also get into kind of a bit of the either programming or operational side, or even get into kind of the art installations, which sort of fits within the programming thing. So we break down the scope for categories, and then we itemize them, and then we can kind of see based on the budget, which elements of that they want to take on and then based on that budget, then also, I kind of know how many additional people that can bring in, that would add more, depending on the scope. So it's tricky, because in a way, it's literally is a bit of a project, pre- project, in a sense, trying to define what the right formula is for each one. But it just, it just works so much better and I'm a big fan of working collaboratively. So it helps and it's always fun to mix things up a little bit.
Stephanie Eche 26:24
For sure. Yeah, it sounds like being super flexible is a big part of the job in any environment, not just right now.
Alexandra Gonzalez 26:31
That's true. I think especially these days, right? I mean, we were completely remote. So, I worked from home and I had my co-founder, for instance, in Europe. So obviously, completely different time zones and working on projects in Latin America, right now, so it's different time zones, as well and everything is sort of digital. But it's great because you kind of have flexibility and you can also inject your own life and your own joy within your schedule and it just works a little bit smoother, in my opinion.
Stephanie Eche 27:07
For sure. And then I imagine you do site visits or hire people locally. Can you talk through about how that works and then particularly how it's working now that you are all virtually working together?
Alexandra Gonzalez 27:18
So yes, so definitely a site visit, at the very least one site visit before kind of diving in into the design aspects, for sure. If there's a, if the budget allows, a couple. Often, to be honest with you, often it’s just one. But we always do partner with a local person, so whether it's an entity or whether it's an artist or a fabricator or something like that, someone that is local, that we can really ask them questions, if we need to, just ‘can you go to the site and take a couple of pictures or a couple of measurements’. It's really important, but I think it’s just an essence, it just grounds the project, too. So, not just for the necessity-wise, but I think just overall just having someone that is there and that might be able to flag something that might not be as relevant as we think it is. It's just key.
Stephanie Eche 28:12
How do you work with artists?
Alexandra Gonzalez 28:13
So they're part of the team. I think our teams are very non-hierarchical. I mean, I think the name of the game is collaboration, for sure. But we're very respectful of their work. So they always sort of come in with, we have an objective, this is what we're trying to accomplish, very transparent from the beginning. Like this is our budget, these are the constraints, these are the, you know, issues, because that just comes with the territory in urban art, you have to evolve and know that I have to adjust here and there. I think you can relate to that. But yeah, but they're absolutely a part of the team and we love bringing in artists and I love art installations, it’s actually one of my favorite things to do. Unfortunately, there's not that many. It's tricky, but we're actually working on exciting ones for the summer, so, excited about that.
Stephanie Eche 29:11
How do you find artists for your projects?
Alexandra Gonzalez 29:13
So we have a lot that just are in our network, people that we have worked with in the past. Honestly, social media has been really great to find, a great way to find new people because your portfolio is out there, right? It’s just the easiest way to find new artists and new talent. I’m also a big fan, like whenever I'm walking around, if I see someone, right away make sure that I know who they are and I try to follow them or get a little bit more in depth as to what he or she is doing or you know what they're doing. So very organically, to be honest with you. We don't have a specific methodology or directory that we follow. It's just you know, exciting people, talented people that want to be part of the group.
Stephanie Eche 29:57
And I really liked what you said about giving them a clear budget and the constraints upfront, because I think that is something that unfortunately, some other agencies do not do. And then they kind of are pulling these artists along with these unrealistic expectations, maybe not paying them, expecting them to be in all these community meetings and that is, it makes me so upset, because then the artist might get turned off about working in this capacity in general, right? And then the community is turned, everybody is upset with what's going on. And I have been, I was in a position actually recently, where I was approached by an art consultant who did not reveal the budget or the timeline or anything and it's really hard, I think, to be realistic about what you can bring to the table as an artist when you don't know what those things are, because, for me, if I know I have, I have to get something done in two months, my budget might be different than if I'm going to have six months to do it, because that might mean I need to hire an assistant or multiple assistants, depending on the scale of the project. And all of those things go into how much an artist cost, in addition to obviously, the work and where they are in their career, if they're an emerging artist, or a more established artist, but I imagine you, like I do, we work with artists from all different levels, so giving them the full ability to actually put their best foot forward. Because I hate to see artists either, you know, really giving a very cheap price, because they just really want the project or doing something really ridiculous, but if they don't know anything about the project, it's impossible for them to give something that's actually going to work for everyone.
Alexandra Gonzalez 31:35
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree with you more. I think, I always try to be as helpful as I can possibly be and be, especially for the emerging artists, which for us, if that’s who we work with, we love to mix it up a little bit, we have some people that are a little bit more farther in their career, but always, always, always, including emerging artists. And yes, what you were saying and even the complexities and things that are like liability and insurance, and some of them have no idea what this is, you know, that can be a big deal. So doing as, helping as much as we can to make sure that those things don't end up being a last minute we have to figure out situation, it's important. Making sure that we're always paying them fairly, that's also super important. And that's tricky. That's one that we find kind of a tricky one with our clients, because I don't know if you've experienced this, but sometimes they would say something like, well, in the past, we pay x for y, therefore they think that that’s going to be forever the price for that mural or whatever that piece is, and kind of trying to break that away from them and say, well, that happened then, that's great, but this is how much this artist is worth, and making sure that they understand that. That's a tricky one, too. But yes, I think just being transparent is just so important in telling them like this is your timeline, this is what we're expecting and try to give them at least an understanding of they do like we were saying the community meetings and things like that, that they might not have budgeted for in the beginning. So that's, I think, helpful. I think the bare minimum you could do.
Stephanie Eche 33:29
For sure. For sure. The bare minimum. And I totally, I've totally experienced that with different clients. You know, saying, yeah, this is what we paid in the past, or this is how much time it took in the past. Which is another thing for me because I like to give artists enough time to actually give a good proposal because I feel like a lot of businesses or even nonprofits, they'll be like, ‘can you send us a proposal by tomorrow or Friday or Monday’ and it's like, that's so unfair, if you're actually a working artist, or not a working artist, and you know, maybe this is a hobby thing, and you are an emerging artist, and you're very tied to this location, we need to be able to work with them and their schedules, which are often just as erratic as our schedules and I think it's so rude to ask for ridiculous timelines. And then with budget, if people are working with the same artist, artists increase in price over time, so something you got for cheap five years ago is going to be more expensive now and I think that's just something that people forget when they're not in it all the time.
Alexandra Gonzalez 34:29
Yeah, absolutely. That's a tricky one. It's a tricky one to kind of snap out of people just to make sure everything costs more all the time and not every every mural is going to be the same thing.
Stephanie Eche 34:41
Right and always get paid for your murals if you are an artist and we will always ensure that we let people know they have to pay for their murals. I think that's another kind of misconception like, ‘oh, well they would do it for free’ or they did it for, and then of course when I talk to mural artists, they always say, don't do work for free, but my first mural, I did for free. So it's just like this weird, it's weird.
Alexandra Gonzalez 35:03
It's a chicken and the egg problem.
Stephanie Eche 35:05
Yeah.
Alexandra Gonzalez 35:07
It’s like, you don't have enough experience but then, can’t pay you enough if you don't have experience.
Stephanie Eche 35:12
Right. Totally.
Alexandra Gonzalez 35:13
Yeah, absolutely.
Stephanie Eche 35:14
What advice would you give to someone looking to pursue a career similar to yours?
Alexandra Gonzalez 35:19
I think first of all, knowing that it's not a linear process. I think that's really important. And I think going back to what I was telling you earlier, that I, it's hard for me to give a blueprint because it's impossible to do so, what has worked for me might not work for someone else. But I do think kind of understanding and sort of moving at the speed of trust, which is something that we use, in my DAP Collective, my Design as Protest Collective, we talk about like, how can we move at the speed of trust. So like, kind of growing as you move along, and kind of pushing the boundaries a little bit more every time. In my particular case, I actually worked really well to start at a small company where I was, because of capacity, that means that you have to wear a lot of different hats and it means that you learn a lot of different skills that you might not get in a big firm. Again, someone else might feel completely different, but in my case, it worked really well because I feel like I know, at least a little bit of the lab and that means that I'm not just coming in being completely divorced from understanding another discipline or understanding something else that happens. But just being flexible, and making sure that you stay curious and that you’re still trying to, you know, figure it out and be open to learn something completely different and to just do what makes you happy. I think that's so important and I think especially now just really trying to find joy in what you do, it's just so important. Yeah, just try things and don't be afraid to fail. Start over.
Stephanie Eche 36:56
Can you share a little bit more about the Design as Protest Collective?
Alexandra Gonzalez 37:00
Yes, so I joined last year, I think kind of, in the middle of the pandemic, I think when we were all kind of craving this connection, and you know, but in a way angry about a lot of things that were happening. For me personally, for Hive, always design justice has been something that has been truly important and one of the most driving factors of our work. To be able to join this collective has been fantastic. We are a BIPOC, so Black, Indigenous and People of Color collective of designers that are essentially just trying to make sure that the built environment is accommodating for all of us. It's been a great family, honestly and we are doing really fantastic work. So make sure you follow and see the work that we're working on, there’s a great, great talented group of people there.
Stephanie Eche 37:57
How would we follow the group?
Alexandra Gonzalez 37:58
So, dapcollective.com and you know, we're all over Instagram, Twitter and all over the place, we have a medium account where we work on different writings and stuff. But it's been really fantastic just learning from everyone, we're all over the country. So just kind of coming in together and working in many different groups. So we have a planning and policy, which is kind of what I've been working on, and then we have a direct action, and there's another organization that has completely emerged from it that is more DMU Dark Matter University that is focusing more on the educational kind of curriculum side of things. So, a lot happening. But come out there, and you should definitely follow.
Stephanie Eche 38:50
Yeah, I'll definitely put this in the show notes. That sounds really exciting. And what a great way to use your expertise to give back and be in collaboration with others.
Alexandra Gonzalez 39:00
Absolutely. It's been a joy. It's been so great to just meet different people and I think right now we need community more than ever, so it was just perfect timing.
Stephanie Eche 39:11
Earlier, before we started recording, we were talking about how the pandemic has made us really know our local areas, much more intimately than maybe we knew them before, even as people obsessed with public space. So can you tell us a little bit more about what that experience was like for you? And also some tips for helping people get to know their public spaces more intimately, and also how they can get involved, how can they help with the decision making process in those spaces?
Alexandra Gonzalez 39:40
Yes, that's super important. If you're able walk as much as possible around your city, even if it's in small increments, so I think that that's really important because really seeing it firsthand is the most, the easiest way to get to know different places. For, like I was saying, for me I didn't used to walk around that much in my immediate area, just because I, you know, like a lot of my friends or, you know, I used to work in the city in Manhattan, so of course, it was my daily commute and I wasn’t necessarily spending so much time here in Long Island City, which is where I currently work and live now. But just, I think it's important to just try different things, try to support the local businesses, things are getting a little bit better, but I think we can all help out as much as we can. In terms of trying to be active, you could try to find your community boards and see if that's something that you want to do. Frankly, there's always something to do, you don't have to box yourself in a certain lane, you could do a little bit. If we all do a little bit, no one has to do a lot, which is so important. And this, going back to my DAP Collective, we always talk about that. So, yeah, just trying to talk to people really try to create more local connections, just try to talk to people. Which sounds so silly, and so intuitive, but we often take that for granted because we just get so siloed into just our own group of friends, or just being connected to our phones and not even looking around. So just forcing yourself to make those connections and then create memories in the place in which you live and not just use it as a point A to point B but really try to create your network around it.
Stephanie Eche 41:43
For sure. Those are great tips. And that's, it's something that I've noticed with some people in my social circle, as well. People who are usually traveling a lot for work or for pleasure, and all of the sudden conversations with them are so much more interesting, because it's not about like, oh, I just went to Italy and this and that. It's like, yeah, I was helping out at my local mutual aid and I met this person or I just discovered this new playground that I've never noticed. It's just night and day and I think for as many things as COVID has done that has really, you know, it's really impacted our lives on personal levels, we've lost a lot of people and infrastructure wise, on so many levels, it's made a lot of things really terrible, but there are some kind of little tiny hope.
Alexandra Gonzalez 42:35
Glimpses of hope.
Stephanie Eche 42:36
Yeah, glimpses of hope that if we really all kind of hunker down and get to know our immediate areas and contribute, we can make an impact. We've been doing it.
Alexandra Gonzalez 42:48
Yeah, just pick a day and be a volunteer at the local park and plant, I don't know, bulbs or something. There's always something to do, I think we just have to look a little bit more and find ways to help out, now more than ever.
Stephanie Eche 43:05
Definitely. Is there anything else that you want to add?
Alexandra Gonzalez 43:09
Support your local public spaces. They need you and you need them, so make sure you do whatever you can to keep them active, they do so much more than you think. They're just not only the economic development lifeline to a lot of our communities, but they could be so much more, like I was just saying, if they can transform and really help our communities, they're really, really the glue to our cities. So, I’m excited that people are at least paying a little bit more attention now about them, so let's hope we can keep that momentum going.
Stephanie Eche 43:42
Yes. And where can our listeners connect with you online?
Alexandra Gonzalez 43:46
So our website is hivepublicspace.com, and they can also follow us on Instagram or on Twitter Hive Public Space!
Stephanie Eche 43:55
Yes, awesome. I am so excited to check out the DAP Collective as well. I will be putting all of Alex’s information in the show notes, so you can follow her. Definitely check her out on Instagram, Twitter, website, and I'm so excited to see the projects that are coming up. I already am blown away by everything you've been working on in such a short amount of time.
Alexandra Gonzalez 44:17
Thank you so much. I appreciate it and I'm also very inspired by you as well, so thank you.
Stephanie Eche 44:22
Well thank you so much for being a guest and for kicking off more of the behind the scenes of how art in public space happens and how public spaces are managed. I think it's gonna be really interesting to have your interview and other interviews. So, thank you.
Alexandra Gonzalez 44:38
Of course! Thank you.
Stephanie Eche 44:40
Thanks for listening to this episode of First Coat. If you liked this podcast, please leave a review. Make sure to subscribe to the First Coat podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram @firstcoatpodcast or @distillcreative. First Coat is a production of my company Distill Creative. Check us out at distillcreative.com.