Isa Rodrigues on Textiles and The Ultimate Public Art - Ep 17
This week on First Coat we have Isa Rodrigues. Isa is a textile artist and educator from Portugal, currently based in Brooklyn, New York. She is the Co-Executive Director at Textile Arts Center and teaches weaving and surface design. Isa has created textiles for different public space settings and shares her perspective on weaving, dyeing, and the hand made.
In this episode we talk about how she creates textiles for commission projects, how she plans out a weaving project, the ultimate public art, and what’s inspiring her right now.
This interview was recorded in June 2021.
Hand woven textiles by Isa Rodrigues at NYC restaurant Amada.
Modular Weaving by Isa Rodrigues.
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LINKS
Guest | Isa Rodrigues, Artist & Co-Executive Director of Textile Arts Center
Isa Rodrigues is a textile artist and educator from Portugal, currently based in Brooklyn, New York. After receiving her MA in Textile Conservation in 2008, she moved to New York to work and learn from the textile collections of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. In 2010, she joined the founding team of the Textile Arts Center, where she still currently works as Co-Executive Director and teaches weaving and surface design.
Isa likes to experiment and create with weaving and natural dyes, and her best ideas tend to appear to her in dreams.
Her work has been exhibited at the Museum of Art and Design and the Cooper Hewitt Museum, and she has created work for clients such as Altuzarra, Gabriela Hearst, M.Patmos, Google, ED by Ellen, Thompson Street Studio, amongst others.
Find Isa on Instagram @aiessei and on her website at www.isarodrigues.net.
Your Host | Stephanie Eche, CEO & Founder of Distill Creative
Stephanie Eche is an artist and art consultant based in Brooklyn, NYC.
Follow Stephanie on Instagram (@distillcreative or @stephanie_eche), Twitter (@stephanie_eche), YouTube (Distill Creative), LinkedIn, and check out her art website.
Support First Coat by backing us on our Patreon.
Learn more about Distill Creative’s services for real estate developers.
Are you an artist? Sign up for our Distill Directory and you’ll be considered for art commissions and future projects.
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Stephanie Eche 00:02
Welcome to First Coat, where we explore public realm art, how it's made and why it matters. I'm your host Stephanie Eche, an artist and entrepreneur based in Brooklyn, New York. I run Distill Creative where I curate and produce site-specific art projects for real estate developers. I focus on creating more equitable and inclusive projects and I want to get more exposure for the artists and developers doing this work. This week on First Coat we have Isa Rodriguez. Isa is a textile artist and educator from Portugal, currently based in Brooklyn, New York. After receiving her MA in textile conservation in 2008, she moved to New York to work and learn from the textile collections of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. In 2010, she joined the founding team of the Textile Arts Center, where she currently works as co executive director and teaches weaving and surface design. Isa likes to experiment and create with weaving and natural dyes, and her best ideas tend to appear in her dreams. Her work has been exhibited at the Museum of Art and Design and the Cooper Hewitt Museum and she has created work for clients such as Altuzarra, Gabriela Hearst, M. Patmos, Google, ED by Ellen, Thompson Street Studio, amongst others. I know Isa from a garment weaving class that I took with her earlier this year and I'm super excited to share our conversation. Welcome to First Coat. Thank you so much for being here today. Could you tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Isa Rodrigues 1:37
Yes, hello. My name is Isa. I struggle a little bit how to define who I am to what I make, but lately I've been saying I'm a maker, I'm also a textile artist, I'm an educator, and yeah, I exist in those practices. Currently, I am one of the directors at the textile Art Center where I coordinate mostly the artists programs. By the way, I also teach and I also teach textile arts and a couple of other places, do my own work and also do textile fabrication projects for other artists or for designers. Wherever watch music was, was meant to work they was.
Stephanie Eche 2:34
Yeah, and that's kind of how I got to know you is through the garment weaving class at textile Art Center, which was amazing.
Isa Rodrigues 2:41
I'm so happy you liked it.
Stephanie Eche 2:43
How did you start weaving garments?
Isa Rodrigues 2:46
So I've always been interested in fashion and in making clothes that was- since I was a kid. And then like definitely, like a teenager, when I said to working with textile volume when I started weaving I didn't make the association right away and it was actually to a job for a client so it's a fabrication job that I did for Joseph Alcazaba back in, I want to say 2015 maybe was 2016 I think it was 2015 that I wove the first garment intended to not be constructed from cut yardage but that's the pieces of the garment were shaped and that was something that felt important for him but through the materials that we're using and the techniques also was the only way we were making these really bulky textiles that were like woven we like Kashmir Marina is like all really chunky. So there was no way we could cut through that yardage and still having it be somehow structurally sound. And you know, it also felt right to three each piece of the garment as a piece on itself and composing in that way. So that was the first time I yeah, shaped weaved and create a garments that were woven and constructed straight from the loom.
Stephanie Eche 3:59
That's awesome. Do you have a photo of that?
Isa Rodrigues 4:02
Yeah, yeah, maybe you can find it. Yeah, I can either send you or you can find it yeah, depending on what year I'm saying it was for a fall Winter Collection. They even if you just Google Alcazaba woven dresses, they they pop up. At some point there was What's her name? She's an actress that. Oh my god. Oh, Keira Knightley. She wore one of them. I like one of those magazines. They were received very well. They came you know, and I think he was excited about them I was really excited about them to is definitely it felt like a celebration of woven fabric and very like- and celebration of the end made because the hand was very present, you know, and so I thought it was pretty cool.
Stephanie Eche 4:45
That's awesome. What's your earliest memory of making art in any form?
Isa Rodrigues 4:49
The thing I'm going to share two memories, one of my earliest memories zeca textile one that I learned how to knit and crochet when I was maybe like four or five, I hang out a lot with my grandmother's. And, you know, they're both from a generation and like that's also like how they were raised that like, you should never be not busy. So if we were like watching TV or hanging out, we- at the beach or something, we always had a project. And it was me and my brother was not just me. So we were always so- they taught us how to crochet, I do embroidery to lead, because those are the things that they did. So we're hanging out with them and doing this. So I still have it I've made I've made these knitted scarf for my baby doll, which is so bad. You know, there's like no gauge whatsoever. It's just like a strip. And then I'm, I still have it because later when I was in high school, I found it again and I transformed it into a headband. Like, like, I thought he was also pretty cool. So definitely I remember doing that. And then I think still like we that association then like later on. I also like maybe I was like seven or eight, I made this scarf for my great grandma that was needed to and I was slow, so I couldn't finish it. So I remember the day before Christmas, my grandma helping me she's just like, it's a little bit fast. But I remember giving it to my great grandma. And he was funny because it barely could wrap around her. With you, I feel so happy. And so that's about it. I remember, I think that was the first time I realized that the handmade, yeah, that it is power, to like, [I] guess communicate with people, but also show love to people that I love. I think that was like, I think I didn't realize it as I was doing it. And then through our emotions and through like that I just want to be like sharing that. I was like, Oh, this was special. And yes, I remember.
Stephanie Eche 6:53
That's so cool. One of my grandma's taught me how to crochet. And so we didn't do much knitting. I've never been that into knitting. But I definitely remember crocheting with her a lot too.
Isa Rodrigues 7:06
It's so special. I mean, I think more and more about that. And it also because of something like that, because I think I'm I don't know if we like show that too. Like I like I didn't practice those techniques necessarily like for years. But I like this body memory. I like I'll keep up with it, though that like I just remembered. Because I learned it I guess at the same time that I was kind of like learning how to write learning how to speak even exist. I like that. And also like said, You being taught, I think, you know, by my people, I mean, I'm speaking like from my grandma's to I would consider them artists, but they don't consider themselves artist or what they're doing being like art practice, when ultimately it's not at all different from what I do. And I consider it that time in our practice.
Stephanie Eche 7:53
Yeah, I think it's like the undervaluing of what is traditionally women's work? And then the reframing of that as like, art somehow I don't know, just so many things happening in there that's really confusing, but I agree. How did you start making art art in public space?
Isa Rodrigues 8:10
I don't I don't know. I that started I think I put it in a category of like commissions. Really, I think that was that was a type of a commission that I also like, got to Yeah, that was my work. I wasn't just fabricating something that had like an aesthetic or like or vision imposed by another artist. But I you know, like I made a couple of series for textiles for a restaurant a few years ago. And I feel those were my designs, but then I add more conditions, but I see that as like similar type of work or that would come up- people find me, in similar ways as they will find when they want me to weave yeah, or dye something it's like I you know, it makes work for hire, but also like mine works for me. I think, you know, I've been at the Textile Center for like 12 years now. And in the beginning that was something that we started doing because yeah, people were asking us if we did it, and we knew that technique since over the years, that's something that I continue taking more and more on that I took special interest because I yeah, there's something that gave me joy. Like I don't see it as a different type of making. I like making my own work with my own concepts. But I also really like from I see it as problem solving. I like making other visions come true because I also really liked the technique. So having to figure out what that makes that possible what materials are possible to execute these projects in textiles is equally as fun for me. So I think that kind of just took its own path and then because I was interested in it that I was saying yes and yeah, kind of one thing led to the other.
Stephanie Eche 7:53
How much of it is like a collaboration because like translating something into a physical form, especially if it's a weaving or any kind of textile based thing requires like you so much technical know how. So if someone comes to you with like a concept, do you then go back and say, well, this is how I would do it? Or this is like what's possible? Or is it like the opposite? Where they'll ask you for- I guess it probably depends.
Isa Rodrigues 10:16
Yeah, I think they both and like, it happens in so many different ways. And that's also like, part of like, what's kind of interesting for me is that each project with a different client will be something totally different. So sometimes they, you know, like, I'll get to work on a project that division for the aesthetic is already like, very defined, and, and so ideally, what's left for me to kind of figure out the best way to bring it to life meaning by like, the materials that we're able to source are just techniques, even though those cases that it's always a conversation. So I would say it's always a collaboration, because it's not like a direct transfer, you know, and there's also, especially when working with fashion, but not not even limited to that, there's, you know, sometimes if we're working with very tight deadlines, the type of yarn or type of materials that I'm able to serve, or even the amount of time that a technique would require. It's not compatible with the timeline that we working with. So I think that's the five study becomes a collaboration in which I say what is possible for a budget what is possible for a deadline? What is possible, even for the application that is that these budgets are Yeah, that these things is going to become, and other times it is a true collaboration that you know, that someone will come to me with a second idea and and then, you know, I'm off to any person to design and make choices or the projects that I do for the house, the new Ace hotel here in Brooklyn. Yeah, like I was provided the the vision board and the color palettes, but then it was my own doing. So it's really the fun.
Stephanie Eche 11:52
How do you balance your fine art practice with your commission work with also teaching and just being being a co director at TAC? Like-
Isa Rodrigues 12:03
I don't balance, So, I for the last 12 years, I mean, I say this, and I don't say to like, be cheesy or anything, but I think my, my biggest project, like has been tack, and I do see and I you know, like Kelly was the other director and owner and I think everyone that worked there that would definitely like as work their full time, I think they would have agreed that you know, it takes a lot being an active administrator is, is a practice on its own. And I see you as a creative practice that I've seen it as a creative practice. So, yeah, most of the time I don't really balance. I think the the parts of my practice that ends up being put on the back burner is what I consider my personal practice or maybe what are you calling Fine Arts reset? I don't think I wouldn't even call it that because I don't that's not really when I make work right? It's like leucine behind me I want to make work that is just steady just driven by myself and by my ideas not any you know, not any idea of you know, making money or anything like that. I don't necessarily think about it. I mean, I think about it as art but I think about it sometimes we feel it there and sometimes I think about it as just things that I'm making but I don't really have a Yeah, I I'm kind of fairly but I always struggle even calling it's fine art versus just calling and something else they actually like exist all at the same level. But yeah, I haven't balanced too well. I mean, it's hard. It's hard to to to live in New York City or any other place just out of your artwork and especially like in a city like New York. Endeavors and proud practice that can generate income, I think tend to take priority. So I think it has been a balance of all of that like and, you know, I think I've also been privileged and I am grateful for the fact that I've been able to exist for the last decade, making most of my life to doing things around textiles and around making either teaching or being an administrator or making work for others. Yeah, I see that as as a privilege for sure.
Stephanie Eche 14:31
Could you share a little bit more about Textile Art Center for anyone who is not familiar with it?
Isa Rodrigues 14:36
Sure. So Textile Center is a project that was started in 2009. We exist in the city that we are right now in the Gowanus since 2010. It was started by a couple of people some of them are still there, some others aren't. And since the beginning, a community focus project. So the idea was to create a studio space focus on textile art that people could use to take classes, but also just come and use the facilities, I think nodding to the fact that once you're out of school, and you don't really have easy access, necessarily to room, so it's a dialogue about the synchronizing facilities, and that all these equipments could be shared. But also nodding to these experience when you are in school or when you are like learning and working amongst, amongst peers, that there is this cross pollination that is just like learning from each other, and it's exciting. So that was the vision for what we want to build. And that's what we've been building over the last decade and continue to try to build and when I say we, I use the greater a "we" as I do think everyone builds it and contributes to them has to have work exchange people that come and use the studio, residents. It is very much a work in progress project, I think by design, which also has allowed TAC, or the Textile Center to also respond, you know, in whatever best way we can to the different circumstances. For instance, last year during the lockdown we were we were close to the public for over six months. And we we never had any type of remote class or an online class like the one you took Stephanie, I feel bad and then we'd always just like, okay, I mean, we we need to generate income in order to keep the project alive. So this is what we can do. The same time we have we have a residency program, which is nine months and you know, so how can we continue supporting our residents? The curriculum can continue happening. Yeah, and that's been an event that's driven by many people. And everyone is flexible, contributes with ideas. And some of- that same way I feel there's been so many projects that have been Yeah, that started a talk and some continue on and carry on like in other in other places, others like, exist and come to an end. Yeah, so I do. I do think it also acts as like, an incubator for ideas that have been, too, exciting to me. Yeah, some things that as we are open to the public now, so yeah, whoever is listening can come visit, for sure.
Stephanie Eche 17:33
It's so exciting now that TAC has, like online classes, because then anyone can join from anywhere. Because I know that's been a big like, when I didn't live in New York City, when I lived in Washington, DC, I would come up for a class, just like come up for a weekend to be able to take class at TAC, because it was so amazing. And it was, I remember the first time I went It was like a dream come true to even know that a place like that exists. And now I live kind of close, which is amazing. But before it was like, Yeah, I would plan a whole trip just to be able to go there. And then now being able to, like, you can take classes in person again now, starting now. Right? Okay.
Isa Rodrigues 18:14
I think now, yeah. But we're keeping the remote classes too exactly for what your, for the reasons you were saying. You know, like, it was maybe something but and I think that's also what I was meaning by sometimes, because it's really the circumstances that led us to like take these leaps, which I think really happened with the support of everyone too. But, you know, we probably would have been a couple more years if ever thinking like, oh, maybe we could do classes online, but maybe we wouldn't have done it because you know, everything is already so busy as it is. But last year, we didn't have any options. So we had to explore that. And yeah, when we got a lot of that feedback, a lot of the people that we see taking the remote classes weren't people that were in New York and they were writing saying oh like we've been wanting to take a class for so long and its been so great. And also that even just the ability to work with Textile Art that also not based in New York who be teachers or even, yeah, becoming as mentors or guest critics for the artists in residency program. That's been really cool.
Stephanie Eche 19:20
I think TAC seems to have always done a really good job of networking outside of New York City, but now even more so being able to bring people into the virtual classes seems really cool. And the residency. What tips do you have for an artist who wants to do either commission based work or collaborate with other people for for the work that they're making? That's fiber based.
Isa Rodrigues 19:44
I mean, I was just talking with a friend of mine about that actually. My life back home I mean, My only advice I guess, My only advice to from from my experience, and I think also from like the experience of my peers, but I think one day was always important to me, but That you that you know your stuff. So you know like putting, putting the work or start to get to know like, what techniques you feeling more confident in like getting to know the materials and also not being afraid and to say what you don't know to the people that approached you and being honest about what are your limitations, not even limitations like in the in a negative way, but like what maybe sometimes the limitations of your studio setup Are you one one limitations of the material and and being okay, having that conversation, I think a mistake that I did early on, was that I felt like I had to say yes to everything. And if they were asking me the impossible, somehow I had to like, figure out how to do it. And you know, that's sometimes like led us to situations and work relationships and collaborations that we're in, like, so, you know, are so successful in the end? So I think, yeah, that would that would be a good one. And I think to to one of the things that you were saying like how how to get Commission's or how to, like get into doing these type of work. I think also just making clear that you're available, a lot of people that are artists are the makers are not necessarily interested in doing work for hire doing fabrication for others. So also you being clear about Yeah, what type of work do you like to do? And do you want to do and what I guess, let's call it like, your boundaries about that, too? Are you only interested in doing collaborations? And in that sense, like, you'd also like your name associated with it? Are you okay with someone hiring you to do something? And that becoming their work? And no, I didn't think that there's like a template for this. I think it's getting down to like the individual. But I think if you're clear about what do you what do you do? What are you willing to do? What do you like to do? People find you. And there's I think, especially like in cities that are creative cities like New York, what I guess I have my experience, you know, not everyone does the same people have different areas that they specialize and also different yeah setting boundaries are things that they will do, or they don't do what they interested in doing or not. But we kind of all know each other have know of each other too. I think that helps to, to say like, I'm not interested in taking a job or because I can't do it, or I don't know how to do it. I can think of other people. And if I know that they're into that type of work, I can just recommend. Yeah.
Stephanie Eche 22:27
What's your favorite type of projects to do?
Isa Rodrigues 22:30
I don’t know, I think, yeah, I don't know. I think I yeah, I like it. I mean, on my own side is I love weaving. I also really like working with dyes and working with icing I guess maybe less traditional. I'm not- that's not even true. There's been there's been a tradition of making it, working with dyes as like a surface design. So either through painting, direct application and just like combining and bringing that into the weaving practice too that's something I've been really excited about. Yeah, and as far as like this fabrication jobs, I think the job is new I think I learned I think one of the reasons why I like doing it is because I feel like I learned a lot through every project is is I learned about a specific material, I would never walk, run away. So I'm thinking about commission I did last year, which was a woven garment too and I'm weaving with these fingers thick cashmere, both warp and weft I was like, I would never had like, purchased that material for myself, like I would never have had that experience, you know, so it was great to have that experience. And it's based on now like, yeah, I mean, I work so much with it. And I was like, Yeah, I know about that material. So I appreciate that from every project, I think, you know, because the vision is up to someone else they do bring like a set of factors that it's Yeah, it's kind of challenges me outside of this, like what would be my comfort zone or even just like the possibilities that I would think for my work.
Stephanie Eche 23:55
Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons I was really excited to interview you because I've been interviewing a lot of mural artists who like usually they're coming to a space with their own concept but sometimes there's some there's some art direction depending on the client and how whatever the project is, and I think so much of any kind of art in public space is problem solving, but it's similar with textiles and I consider like doing a piece that's going to be on a body or a piece that's going to be seen in a public space as art in public space also right because like it's in public space. And I think textiles is so interesting in that it's like like the dress I'm wearing I would consider this like art but also it's a dress but also you know, there's so many layers and then there's and then it gets like confusing when something looks handmade or not handmade or like when you're trying to make it look handmade like someone was wearing pants the other day that I thought were like newish pants that they had they had really nice patches on them and my husband thought that they were like really worn pants because the the butt had like worn where the wallet was like it looked like they had been worn a lot. But I was like, No, I'm sure they just distress them to look like that. But now it was like fashion you never really know. Like, especially with Yeah, I guess.
Isa Rodrigues 25:09
And then what you said about, Yeah, like fashion and garments be like also like the ultimate public art. It's like, I love that. I feel like I yeah, I'm writing that down.
Stephanie Eche 25:22
Well, your class really brought that out, I think for me in my work of how like, I think I kind of separated them. Because early in my post college life, I had a job in fashion. And I took it because I really wanted to learn how to make more than one of something because before that I was doing like freeform dresses. And then I learned all the crazy world of like clothing production. And it kind of killed my creativity, because it was all about like, okay, in order to do this, you have to do this. And like the pattern has to be this way. And you can only use this fabric and the shrinkage and you know, there's like a million things you have to think through. And then you have to hit certain minimums. And you can only get this fabric at this minimum, like and so that's what kind of pushed me to even learn weaving. But then when I learned weaving, I was just like, I'm never going to cut anything I weave, ever. So your class that was able to like push it like like, Oh, I could actually weave things that can be shapes that just live.
Isa Rodrigues 26:14
And I mean, that's the part that I love about it too. And it's not something I think it was only Yeah, like after like my first explorations, I'm like shaping but then as I started really also researching what was the theory of that? But yeah, like what you're saying, just yeah, there's the respect for the labor and the respect for the materials that we want to have like these idea of producing yardage and then cutting through it and wasting it's something. Yeah, it's so it's so recent, it's like definitely like, yeah, post Industrial Revolution. And yeah, super associated with these capitalist way that we have existing and making and thinking about that, but I yeah, I love I love that to just see his respect for the process and the material and the respect those so much that you actually include that on the design that you designed, how you resist it on the loom and the shaping and everything, and you also compromise the design and that it was okay to compromise the shape of the garment to preserve the material versus just making the material do whatever we want. I'm very interested in that idea of Yeah, not not trying to bend something to your will necessarily but respecting each part.
Stephanie Eche 27:28
Can you walk us through the process of a recent textile or dyeing project that you did? And like how you thought that through?
Isa Rodrigues 27:35
Sure.
Stephanie Eche 27:35
It can be anything.
Isa Rodrigues 27:36
To vacate their six member flag? Or do you like also like seeing behind me surprised? It's all been like working out for a while. So I grew up at the beach. And I'm, like ever fascinated, like with water and water patterns and summer lives. You know, so that's been the kind of an ongoing inspiration for me. And last year at the beginning of lockdown, you know, when I realized that I was not going to be able to go home for a while. And yeah, I find myself really thinking a lot about that and kind of exploring why this idea that I wanted to be for myself, "bodies of water." And one of the techniques that I also like using I was telling you earlier that I was teaching a class this morning about it is painting on the warp and that technique is kind of a rip off of more traditional batik, I mean, by any means is comparable, but it's pretty much you paint dyes or pigments, paints, whatever you want on the warp before the warp gets woven. There's some distortion that happens, similar to what happens to batik, but it's more controlled. And you can apply more colors at the same time. So I knew I wanted to explore that technique. But I didn't know necessarily like how to create the patterns that I wanted to create. So I tested out different brushes, different applications. And I ended up using- to create the panel that's behind you. Because I want these very, like thin and irregular and kind of like wavy lines. So I'm I'm I had all these washi tape that a friend of mine had given me and like with all different thicknesses. So I ended up using that. I just like glued it, I extended the warp out and then I just like glued it, and that ended up becoming my resist. And then I just painted on top. Yeah, that's the lines. Yeah, exactly. And you know, and I was super happy with it. Because the washi tape is so easy to tear. So I could just like create, like curvy lines just by creating little segments. It works great as a resist, I could also reuse it, which is something that I've also tried. Yeah, I try more and more slots to be mindful of like how I can keep reusing and then be the least wasteful in everything I do. So I could I would just remove the tape and I roll it back again, so like I use it like a couple of times. And yeah, then I've been within these schools and I'm excited about it. And that was really what the process was about for me because otherwise I was just doing it on a leftover warp that I had to I had already like decided my FDI decided the way so that was kind [inaudible sound] oh my gosh, that was so close. Oh my god. Yeah. So I think on that note, too, like I that's something that I I've always done and I think I'll always continue doing is letting other factors somehow shape my project. We always have leftover warps at TAC, I always have leftover work from client projects or whatnot, I always save them, and I use them after, I'm looking at a collection of yarns that are from a project that I did six years ago or seven years ago that I've also slowly and steadily been going through it. I rarely buy new stuff. Or I said, Yeah, I try as much as possible to work with what I have around and, you know, in a way that conditions what I can make. But I also like that.
Stephanie Eche 30:55
Thank you, when you talk about some weaving things I understand or like checked out textiles in general, but people listening might not understand. So I think it helps to talk through the process of, you get somewhere. I think to a lot of people it just looks like magic, or they don't think about like, oh, someone wove the thing, someone or something, a machine, probably wove of the things we wear, and it's not like you don't like print fabric. Well, you can I guess now maybe but in general, it's like made by something.
Isa Rodrigues 31:26
Yeah. And I enjoy all the work that goes into like making those decisions. So even like me, saying it's like, oh, I just used what was on the loom I put that on the loom I made that decision once, you know, so that you have to calculate the length of yarn that you're putting on the loom, that you have to calculate the width like I would then you want it to be this type of yarn, if it stops. And it's like all these things that you have to decide ahead if I'm doing dyeing work I have to test the fabric or the yarn, if different fibers different fabric will take the dye differently. So there's always the swatch making. I like the planning sometimes of planning to me feels more exciting than actually finalizing the project, check by the time I come to an idea I like and that is working. I was like, okay, it works. So now it's just making, but he also said something that something I was thinking a lot about a couple of years ago, and I made a couple of pieces with it, I started thinking more I teach weaving a lot. And one of the things that I teach when I teach weaving is how to how to make your selvages just look very straight. And most people have the natural tendency to not have straight selvages when they're beginners, because they pull too much. And I started thinking about that. It's like why, you know, that's, that's totally fine. And you know, just kind of showing your irregularities; why are we striving to the straightness. And then I was at a talk and they were talking about this weaver at work also for the industry. And this he had worked, a lot of we who started doing stuff, you know, we're kind of a step up in order to allow you to weave faster and more steady. And then she had to creative a program for these looms that were fully like mechanized, that made that like created that woven by hand feeling. Like, oh my god, this is like there's so much happening here that like we as humans, try to mimic the machine as these idea of perfection, which is probably socially like applied after the machines came into place, right? And then that we humans are also developing the machines so that the work that they making looks handmade, and like Wow, this is so wrong. So for a while, like I did this project that I set up the loom and I was doing all these exercises to try to unlearn all the conditioning that I had done to my weaving to keep it straight. So weaving with my eyes closed weaving when I was a little tipsy weaving when I was really tired. And it's something like body memories really hard to unlearn. So all the things that which I guess is fine now, which is also the way I weave but what he said about the machines and then they're they're handmade made me really think about that. That's like we always do these push and pull now because we do exist as a machine. So yeah, always comparing and always tried to be the other.
Stephanie Eche 34:23
It's funny you say that too, because I think with when like when I've been in discussions with painters, for example, like someone who paints, the things that they are more specific about that are handmade even I like it's like I forget what is handmade because it to me, it's so normal for it to be handmade or hand touched. But then I'm learning that other artists use a lot of tools, let's just say to, to make things better in a way and it's, there's not a right or wrong but it's more of like recognize the things that you are doing and being aware that they're not really the same anymore. Like we aren't all doing the same things anymore. We have so much that we can pull from to use, which is awesome, but it's also, I think people kind of don't know the work that goes into some things if you don't tell them I guess, like the process you go through to set up the warp even just like, that takes a whole lot of thought and actual physical labor.
Isa Rodrigues 35:16
And taking those moments as education moments is like if I'm working with someone that doesn't know that, you know that they might have expectations like on in costs or like or even the things they're able to do thinking about what is machine made. So like taking a moment like well, I'm not working with this types of looms, these are looms that I'm working or even we dying, I get that a lot. You know, all the dyeing projects I do. I like don't stop dyeing like pot and all of it. So there's limitations like no, I cannot dye 20 yard solid color. That's I not only the equipment that I have. So, you know, I do think there's space and I'm definitely not also like anti machine made. I think a lot of tools and gadgets also, like make our lives easier. But But I think Yeah, you thinking about what makes sense to practice and kind of that.
Stephanie Eche 36:06
Do you have any tips for any clients, or people or even other other collaborators? Who would want to work with a fiber artist? Or someone who specializes more in textiles? What should they know? Or how, how should they approach the project?
Isa Rodrigues 36:21
I don't think necessarily, you know, I mean, obviously, if they're able to do their research ahead of time, that is great, even if they do though, I think arrive with questions and arrive open to learn to Yeah, to to learn about the materials and learn about the process and, and really see that as like a moment. Yeah, that is important that you know that when someone that knows more about that material they're telling you, "That's hard," or maybe she's like, yeah, take take their advice. And because that is just coming to experience. And I, you know, I think that that's true for all mediums if I don't know anything about woodworking, and if I'm working with someone that knows, like, you know, I guess I would just want to hear their opinion, what is possible what's not I might have an idea in my mind, but I've no idea how the tools work, I have no idea of the material work. So I think Yeah, coming with an open mind to the conversation. And I'm sure are seeing that, you know, if someone that hasn't been doing something, and as experienced is saying, like, I wouldn't advise for these to be done a probably coming from a place that they know more. Not that we I mean, we can always continue learning, there's things that maybe I thought was irrelevant. I was like, Oh, no, that's totally possible. You know, we keep learning and we keep pushing, like our limitations. But I think it's important to respect someone's craft and someone's experience.
Stephanie Eche 37:45
What's one thing you wish you had known before you began your career?
Isa Rodrigues 37:50
I don't know. I mean, I have moved so far to life in a very, I guess it happens, and I react a type of way to some of the things I've just unfolded in a very organic way. I think maybe it would have been great. If If I had known maybe 15 years ago that I would think I kind of knew that though, as I say that if I, if I knew it was going to be that it was always going to be a work in progress. I think maybe 15 years ago, I had these expectation that, you know, after a while we reach to a point and you good I think I don't know, I think I came up and said that I think definitely, I feel carried a little bit of that with me. And yeah, I think maybe it would have saved me some anxiety. If I just know from the getgo that we aren't as fast. And it's going to continue to be working progress throughout our lives.
Stephanie Eche 38:44
Yeah, I was just thinking about this the other week, but some friends of all that anxiety that you have when you're younger, that you kind of expect things to be a certain way, and then you realize that they're never like, just this way, so it doesn't really matter. But yeah, you know, it's like you don't know until you know, and then. Yeah, yeah. What's something you've read or listened to recently that's inspired you?
Isa Rodrigues 39:11
Well, one, I have been reading Octavia Butler's Parable of the Sower and Parable of Talents. And, you know, I mean, it's making me think about a lot of things. But one of the things I guess, related to my practice, I guess, this idea of education, and being resourceful, resourceful, and urich it within knowledge. So I've been thinking a lot about that. And you know, is it even just like you embed something, differentiation that we make in between fine arts or crafts or materials that are better materials and worse materials, and then I'm carrying it on like how our society also framed certain type of knowledge as knowledge that you learn in college versus what knowledge that you learn if you know through your grandparents if you do or like, how, how often things that allow us to survive, like cooking, growing food, making clothes, medicine, things like that I've seen as not lesser knowledges versus other things that don't necessarily like are related to survival. So I've been thinking a lot about that. And I mean, a lot. Yeah, and the important writer, and then I also got through quarantine. And I've been also like, working through Thursday, there was a big exhibition on one of my favorites Weaver's Lyn Arzani, couple years ago, so I got the catalogue of the exhibition, then it'd be really nice to also learn more about her process. And yeah, reading through the essays of the different curators on that also been very inspiring to someone that inspires you for I mean, inspires me because I love the work and I love how she her ideas and like how she made them come to life through weaving, but also her life as someone that like started really her practice and dedicated this time to be an artist later than most artists that, you know, I guess that my generation is like would start is just like, just like, you know, pieces. So I've also inspired always about that this idea of us being able to leave many lives and being able to start something at any point if you love it, like this woman I saw on TikTok the other day that always wanted to skateboard, but she was never allowed to because, you know, and then she started skateboarding, in her 50's. And it was just her and these other five like doing incredible things and she had been skating for like a year. And I was like, Wow, this is great. Yeah, that type of stuff really inspires me.
Stephanie Eche 41:49
That's interesting. I'll have to find it on TikTok. Is there anything you wish I would have asked?
Isa Rodrigues 41:55
No, I think these are all really cool questions. I was reviewing them before the conversation. But I have to admit that I didn't really prep my answers, so I didn't even remember all of them. So yeah. And it was really fun to us and see what what popped in my mind when you're asking the questions because kind of getting to know me a little bit. So, that was fun.
Stephanie Eche 42:19
Is there is there anything coming up that you want to share?
Isa Rodrigues 42:22
I mean, I think Yeah, to get, just that the textile center is open to the public. And we're always open to the public, regardless if you're taking a class or doing anything there. So you can always just like pop in and get a little tour. Also the artists in residence are the group that I work with, they're having their final exhibition in September. So that's been going on back in September. Yeah. And I don't know my style for the summer and to hopefully test out some new works and new ideas. So you'll see we'll see about that.
Stephanie Eche 42:55
And where can our listeners find you online?
Isa Rodrigues 42:57
You can find me on Instagram, my handle is kind of like a play on my name and the phonetic so my name in English and in Portuguese. But handle is a i e s s e i. And you can also find some of work I'm not so worried about updating it, which is something I'll say so how to keep your website updated. Mine is that- and my website is just my name IsaRodriges.net.
Stephanie Eche 43:29
Thank you so much. And I'll put all the links in the in the show notes so people can find your work and learn more about Textile Art Center. And thank you for doing this interview.
Isa Rodrigues 43:40
Great thank you for organizing and for inviting me. This is so fun. Bye.
Stephanie Eche 43:46
Thanks for listening to this episode of First Coat. If you liked this podcast, please leave a review. Make sure to subscribe to the First Coat podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and follow us on Instagram @firstcoatpodcast or @distillcreative. First Coat is a production of my company Distill Creative. Check us out at distillcreative.com.