Natasha May Platt on Meditation, Painting Flowers, and Pleasure - Ep 05

ON THIS EPISODE

This week on First Coat we have Natasha May Platt. Natasha is a mural artist based in Bushwick, New York City. She’s painted murals all over the world, but I first met Natasha from one of her murals in the Lower East Side.  I spoke with Natasha about meditation, her new approach to finding clients, and the importance of saying yes. You’ll learn how Natasha feels about contracts, how she’s diversifying her income stream, and how she rejuvenates her body.

Read the full transcript here.

This interview was recorded in May 2020.

LINKS

Guest | Natasha May Platt, Artist

Natasha May Platt is a mural artist based in New York, known as @surfaceofbeauty on Instagram.  She has a BA in philosophy and religion from Harvard College and received the 2010 Gardner Fellowship for a year of international creative exploration after graduation.  Her fellowship led her to the embroidery and textile traditions of Kolkata, India, and she spent three years in Kolkata studying and working in textile design.

Her mural work is influenced by the color and rhythm of textile traditions, as well as her personal connection to nature and meditative states.  She has painted murals for Ballston Quarter Mall in Virginia, Freeform media in LA, Governors Ball Music Festival, as well as murals in Mexico, Bali, and India.  Most of her murals are found in New York City, where she has painted for the non-profit Lower East Side 100 Gates Project, and received a Department of Education Grant for a large-scale community school mural, as well as for numerous private clients including fashion brands, hotels, and restaurants.

Follow Natasha on Instagram (@surfaceofbeauty, #surfaceofbeauty), YouTube, TikTok, and check out her website.

Your Host | Stephanie Eche, CEO & Founder of Distill Creative

Stephanie Eche is an artist and art consultant based in Brooklyn, NYC.
Follow Stephanie on Instagram (@distillcreative or @stephanie_eche), Twitter (@stephanie_eche), YouTube (Distill Creative), LinkedIn, and check out her art website.

Support First Coat by backing us on our Patreon.

Learn more about Distill Creative’s services for real estate developers.

Are you an artist? Sign up for our Distill Directory and you’ll be considered for art commissions and future projects.

  • Stephanie Eche  00:02

    Welcome to First Coat. Where we explore public realm art, how it's made and why it matters. I'm your host Stephanie Eche, an artist and entrepreneur based in Brooklyn, New York. I run Distill Creative, where I curate and produce site specific art projects for real estate developers. I focus on creating more equitable and inclusive projects and I want to get more exposure for the artists and developers doing this work. This week on First Coat we have Natasha May Platt. Natasha is an artist based in Bushwick, New York City. She's painted murals all over the world, but I first met Natasha from one of her murals in the Lower East Side. I used to walk by it every day. I reached out to her for a client project I was working on and she was so open and genuine. I had no idea she had this amazing background in textiles and embroidery. She actually was working in fashion when we first met, and now she's a full time artist. Natasha has been posting videos about her work on her YouTube channel Surface of Beauty, which you should definitely check out. I'm so excited to be talking to her today about her work, her influences and what it really takes to be a mural artist. Welcome to first coat I'm so excited to have Natasha May Platt here today. You may know Natasha from Surface of Beauty on Instagram. She's a mural artist based in New York City, and she has a background in philosophy, embroidery and textile design. She's painted walls literally all over the world and recently finished a project in the British Virgin Islands and a mural commissioned by Yonkers city government. She also has a new textile and resin artwork that I'm really excited about seeing. It's in an art exhibit at the Chelsea Gallery, but it's been postponed due to Covid-19. Thank you so much for being here today, Natasha. How's it going? 

    Natasha May Platt  01:39

    Thank you for having me, Stephanie. It's good to connect via zoom or whatever we can in this time.

    Stephanie Eche  01:46

    Yeah, it's, it's funny, because we're not really that far from each other. I mean, we could probably bike to each other and meet up. Maybe we can try this again, in person, six feet away.

    Natasha May Platt  01:58

    Six feet away. Yeah.

    Stephanie Eche  02:00

    I was watching all your videos the other night

    Natasha May Platt  02:03

    Oh, on YouTube? 

    Stephanie Eche  02:04

    Yeah. And they're awesome. Can you tell us more about how that started? 

    Natasha May Platt  02:07

    Oh, my gosh. I vividly remember the day that I wanted to start my YouTube channel. It was about four years ago, I think it was before I became a muralist. 

    Stephanie Eche  02:17

    Really? 

    Natasha May Platt  02:18

    I mean, I was an artist, but I wasn't yet a fully- I probably had painted a couple murals, but I wasn't, I didn't see myself as a muralist or think that that could be my career. I just realized, YouTube, this is, this is the platform that I can express all these different parts of myself, because you know, like you said, I have this background in philosophy, and I have lived in India for a while, and you know, meditation is a really important part of my life, and then I have my artistic practice, and then I have my fashion background, and it's just kind of too much to fit into, like a photograph on Instagram. And so I realized that on YouTube, a video, even if it's three minutes long, you can sort of weave in- I'm all about weaving, that's the, that's the textile part. If you look at the video like a textile, it's like you start by talking maybe about, you know, your meditation, and then you kind of paint a little bit, and then maybe there's some footage of you traveling, because maybe you're in someplace like British Virgin Islands. So it's kind of like your whole life can be woven together and presented in a video form. And so this was about four years ago, and I didn't get to it until quarantine. So that was my first task that I wanted to accomplish during this time, because I was actually really, really busy with murals. I had seven murals that were postponed and I'm still waiting for them to be rescheduled. So I was entering one of my busiest seasons, but I was actually excited for the break initially, because I realized that I could just start the YouTube now, you know. And so it comes with a lot of stuff, learning, editing, and learning different video things, which I'm not, I'm not a very technical person. So that was a learning curve. It's still, I mean, it's going to be a learning curve for years, I'm at the baby steps, but yeah, that's what I'm super excited about.

    Stephanie Eche  04:05

    That's really great to hear, you saw some limitations in the current world of social media, and I think Instagram really tries to put people in a box. You can only post these types of things on this feed and these types of things on this feed.

    Natasha May Platt  04:18

    Absolutely.

    Stephanie Eche 04:19

    And the way you've incorporated video into your practice is really interesting, because I totally agree you're able to put different parts of yourself and still use it on Instagram, but you also have all this other stuff going on. It makes sense. I think it helps people get to know more about you. Good job. 

    Natasha May Platt  04:33

    Thank you. Thank you. My next video that I'm going to be shooting this weekend is going to be really me talking about my meditation, and also how to manifest sort of the life that you want and money and abundance in art. So I'm really excited about that and also super nervous because it's also a challenge for me because I have issues with my throat chakra and energetically speaking, I've struggled with speaking my whole life. So it's for me, it's also a real learning curve. I don't see it as me, you know, sort of doing something that's unrelated to my art practice, it's so central to my growth as a human being to make these videos. I'm excited to see what I say in front of the camera this weekend when I'm shooting. 

    Stephanie Eche  05:15

    I heard you've actually been on a few silent retreats. Can you tell us more about that? 

    Natasha May Platt  05:18

    Oh, my god, I've been on silent retreats for the last 12 years. It's a very long conversation. Honestly, I think silent meditation is my true purpose on this planet, and I see my art sort of, as the Buddha says, right livelihood is one of the parts of the Eightfold Path, I see my art as my livelihood in this world, which I hope is right. Right meaning it brings truth and beauty and knowledge to the world, but it's just one aspect of my human life. My silent meditation retreat, I feel is my soul's purpose, and so it's really a way to encounter myself, my true self, beyond the form of the body, or the thoughts, or the opinions and judgments. I mean, there's so many layers, and it's such a beautiful journey and exploration and discovery. I feel like I'm a explorer of my own mind, because, you know, obviously, when I started 10 years ago, I was very much in certain types of thoughts. And then I see those thoughts naturally changing, like I don't change my thoughts, I don't judge my thoughts, but they change on their own, and then it becomes so beautiful and mysterious, I mean, doesn't happen quickly. It's been years, but you really see yourself as this sort of thing that's unfolding on its own with- and you're observing it to really experience that. And that's like a flower, so that leads back to my flowers. It's this unfolding, which happens in its own time, and I really have experienced watching that, and I know it's just the beginning, that's what's so exciting is that I know there's so much more that is going to unfold. It's amazing to be able to touch that space in this life and not just, you know, be working and consuming, and, you know, having pleasure. Pleasure is amazing, but there's so much deeper wisdom to be had. So in this last year, especially I've just experienced a huge shift in my meditation practice, and it's been, it's been amazing.

    Stephanie Eche  07:18

    Is there anything that you'd recommend to someone who wanted to start with silent retreats, or meditation in general? 

    Natasha May Platt  07:24

    Yeah, well, I practice Sudarshan Kriya, which is a breathing based technique, and it's through the Art of Living. So that really works for me, I've tried so many different meditation techniques, Art of Living was one of the ones that I tried at the beginning, and then I sort of deviated away, and did other things and sort of came back and went away. I do feel now at least in this point in my life, it's the most effective and the most stable, because breathing is so connected to our emotions, and our body, and our mind, it's- the breath is the link that sort of ties our spirit and our body together, the first thing we do when we're born is we take a breath, and the last thing we do when we die is exhale. So, you can see that the breath connects the spirit or the mind, whatever you want to call it, and the body. Using the breath to get closer to the mind, I think is really, really effective. But there's other meditation techniques where you know, you sit and observe, like Vipassana, which I've done as well. But I think it's easiest to work with the breath. 

    Stephanie Eche  08:24

    And because now I'm super conscious of my breathing. 

    Natasha May Platt  08:27

    Well, I don't think about my breathing at all, in normal life. That, that's enough to drive someone insane. 

    Stephanie Eche  08:33

    Yeah.

    Natasha May Platt  08:33

    Let the body do what the body needs to do. When I'm meditating, it's like a specific series of yogic, you know, postures that involve the breath. So it's very compartmentalized to that time, and then when you do those, breathing, you get into the space of meditation, I'm not really into mindfulness as part of- I mean, it happens naturally. Again, I see it as a fabric, or a textile imagery, I see the silent retreats as like you're dipping something into dye, and slowly, slowly, the dye is getting darker and darker each time you do it. So you don't have to be stressed out in your everyday life you know, I never try to be a good person or say the right things. It's just too much pressure, oh my god, just be yourself. And then naturally, the dye starts to permeate every aspect of your life, you know.

    Stephanie Eche 09:18

    Yeah.

    Natasha May Platt  09:19

    Because I think meditation in it's truest form is harmony, that your inner world, wherever it is, we're not perfect, so you're not going to be perfect. The inner world, having harmony with the exterior world. And that's what manifestation is, it's like, whatever I am inside, maybe it's 70% good and 30% yucky, whatever, my life should be also that proportion. And that's perfect. That is the perfect state of existence, that my inner world mirrors my external world exactly, and so I just let my inner world be and I just want it to expand into my exterior world. And then slowly as the interior world gets more beautiful, the exterior world gets more beautiful too, but I think the harmony between them is more important than the content of either of them, if that makes sense. So I never judge myself or try to do all the good things that a meditator should do. Oh, my god, who has time for that?

    Stephanie Eche 10:14

    Yeah, I think it's easy to get caught up in like, I didn't do it long enough, or I didn't do it correct, but it's nice to hear your approach.

    Natasha May Platt  10:20

    I know, because meditation is effortless, meditation is the act of not doing, it's being. So that's what I'm saying, so being is just wherever I am, in my journey as a soul, which is clearly not reached attainment or enlightenment, I'm just me, so I'm just being that. And so just sitting in that being and then letting my life be the same thing as I am, is harmony. Sort of like if a cell is taking water in through osmosis until it reaches a harmony with the water in the cell and the water outside of the cell, that's the state that you want to be in. That's harmony.

    Stephanie Eche  10:29

    I don't think this is a super weird transition, but can you tell us about your first mural?

    Natasha May Platt  11:03

    Yeah, well that is, yeah, that's key. Well, in some ways, it's almost interesting to talk about the first thing I ever made, which basically shows my trauma. I was born into this world having an incredible amount of trauma and fear around making art, even as a child, I never experienced being a blissfully creative child. So you know, my first memory of really creating art, that was a disaster for me, emotionally. We had to make these clay pots or something in preschool or kindergarten, and I wanted to make a horse because I loved horses and whatever. Didn't look like a horse, horses are not easy to make out of clay, and I cried so much, and my mom went to the teacher and asked her if I could come after school and make another one just because I was so upset about how it looked and she let me, she stayed after school, I made a new one. And I remember the second one I made was a tulip. 

    Stephanie Eche  11:58

    Oh my gosh.

    Natasha May Platt  12:00

    Flowers are much easier to make then horses so that's why I stick with flowers, no. But, so there was a lot of trauma and fear that went through my whole life, and I sort of dabbled in art and then pulled back and dabbled and pulled back. And when I painted my first mural back to your question was really coming out of three to four years of fear and searching and trying to create but not really finding my way, and I was doing a lot of stuff like face painting, and different things to try and just loosen my- I mean, I was working in fashion, that was my only job during that time, but and then I suddenly had the idea that I wanted to paint a mural, and it was destiny. It was like doors opened, because I went on Craigslist, my go to for everything I need or want in my life, and there was a mural opportunity, and I wrote to them, and they replied to me. It was just meant to be looking back because there are not very many murals advertised on Craigslist, so the fact that I had the idea to paint a mural, and I found that the same day and I was accepted the same day, and it just, I mean, the mural was done like two days later. And they asked me back for another one, and since then I've painted like four more murals for them. They are a restaurant, they've expanded as a chain. So we started together, and we grew together, and it was a beautiful experience. And then it was pretty effortless from there. But it's just the right time. I went through years of nothing working out, so.

    Stephanie Eche  13:28

    What's your relationship with textiles? And how does it influence your work?

    Natasha May Platt  13:31

    So I started as a textile designer, I worked in textiles for eight years. And I lived in India for three of those years. And it's everything, I didn't go to art school or design school, so learning about color, form, composition, symmetry, I learned completely through a textile lens, and it really really influences how I create my murals. But even simple things like I noticed some artists will cut off a leaf for example, if their composition is finished and the leaf is close to the edge of the wall, they'll just cut it off. I never cut off any elements because that's a sin of high end fashion you should have every element, it's called placement prints, you should have every element whole for all the different parts of the fabric that construct the dress. So I'm very conscious about things like that, and then also the way that I balance color and balance form and balance large and small objects is very much from a textile design perspective, and layering and also my approach to making murals. I'm not hesitant at all to hire assistants and have other hands working, because I come from a background where making a single embroidered dress hand embroidery takes 65 people to make it so there's no concept of only one person's hand is pure enough to make this design, it's like we give them the design and we, they all work together to create and realize that design. And I see my murals as the same way, it's like I know what the design is, but I have to have infinite number of hands helping me to create that. So anyway, so there's a lot of conceptual things about textiles that I've taken, but also I have this textile practice, it's my studio practice where I work with fibers, and it's more a pure experience of texture and form and color. And that's the piece you were mentioning that's going to be in a group show in Chelsea. It's stripping away textile work to the bare essentials, which is cross stitch embroidery, and that's a sort of exploring the relationship between women in textile and men in textiles, because in India, all embroidery is done by men. So I'm kind of stripping away all the layers of culture and, and looking at textiles in its pure form, and also from a form of color. Because it's very, very simple to work with this simple technique, but then I'm layering different shades and different colors, and I dye all of the fabrics in my bathtub, so I get all these different variants, variations of color. So yeah, it's primarily an exploration of color for me.

    Stephanie Eche  16:12

    Yeah, I'm really excited to see that show soon. So, hopefully. 

    Natasha May Platt  16:16

    Now they're saying it's going to be online. 

    Stephanie Eche 16:17

    Oh, wow, okay.

    Natasha May Platt  16:18

    Well, it's going to be an amazing show. It's curated by this woman, Natasha Schlesinger, and she was pulling- so my piece that I made was actually in response to a piece made by Virginia Woolf, the writer. I did a cross stitch piece that was evoking water and leaves, there were some floral leaf elements, but then there are also these two naked bathers, women, bathers, and it's very interesting because she- she and her sister had a textile practice of cross stitch throughout their lives.

    Stephanie Eche 16:53

    Really? 

    Natasha May Platt  16:20

    Yeah, I didn't know that and so my piece, and she has the piece, so my piece was going to hang opposite Virginia Woolf's piece, and that was so meaningful and special. And- but the whole show is about comparing modern and slightly historical artist's takes on the same thing. So, you know, there was traditional still lifes, and then modern artist's still lifes, but it was an amazing, amazing selection of artists, and I was really honored to be shown among them, so much respect for everybody's work, and then now, it might just be an online opening. But also my work is going to be, my textile work is going to be displayed in this upcoming September exhibit, a university, I forget the name in New Jersey, but it's also really cool. Cindy Sherman, and all these really, and Janine Antoni, they're gonna have work there, and my work is going to be there as well. So that's cool.

    Stephanie Eche  17:51

    Yeah, that's great. Well, we'll definitely link to those shows in the show notes so people can check them out.

    Natasha May Platt  17:56

    Okay.

    Stephanie Eche 17:56

    It's really nice to hear that you're keeping up your studio practice. When we first met, I went to your show, and it was the textile resin work. Yes. And it was so cool to see in person, and I hope the show goes up still online, so it still happens and they don't just cancel it, but also, it's really- I feel like with sculptural work and textile where you lose a little bit of it when you see it as a flat image, you know.

    Natasha May Platt  18:21

    Oh, absolutely. Especially this resin because I dip the work into resin and so it's sort of a sculptural block of transparent resin, but there's layers, layers where the textiles are, layers where the paint is, and so it flattens it completely and people can't even understand what it is. So it's very important to see things in person.

    Stephanie Eche  18:41

    For sure. Well, I'm sure you'll make us some videos, so we'll be able to see it from different sides maybe.

    Natasha May Platt  18:47

    Yeah, exactly. That's the type of thing video is much better at communicating.

    Stephanie Eche 18:54

    Are you an artist? Submit your portfolio at distillcreative.com/artists. You'll get on our Distill Directory, our artist database, and be considered for upcoming art commissions.

    Stephanie Eche  19:07

    On an interview you did for the podcast Everyday Creative People, you talk about being persistent and following up with potential clients. You say, ‘maybe we decide what is the right fit or maybe we just feel that it's right’. How do you decide on which projects to work on and how do clients find you?

    Natasha May Platt  19:23

    This is so interesting. I remember vividly that podcast, that was the first podcast I was ever on, I can't believe you found that, good research. What point in my life was I? I was really just starting and I wasn't a full time artist yet and I have a very different approach now which I've consciously changed. And so my approach, I think I'm- I don't think a lot of people do this, but maybe they do, but by nature I'm a go getter I- you know, when I follow up with everyone I don't forget things, I send everyone reminder emails, but I've completely stopped doing that. My attitude now is I'm open. So my favorite quote from the Ashtavakra Gita, which is a Hindu text is “whatever comes, let it come, whatever goes, let it go”. It seems very simple. But basically, when I'm saying whatever comes, let it come, I am available. If somebody messages me on Instagram, I reply to every single person, I never say no to a project, I say yes, always. But I also tell my needs, and it's up to that person to follow up with them and do them, so I won't chase anybody ever. And so many people just drop off. For example, a typical conversation could be, ‘hey, could you paint a mural for us?’ And I say, ‘yes’, I always say yes, doesn't matter where, it doesn't matter what, no project is too small. And then they say, ‘okay, how much would it be? And what's the process?’ And then I say ‘send me photographs of the space, but usually my walls start at 3000. That's my price now for a single wall’, they may never contact me again. And I'm never gonna follow up and say, hey, how is the thing, did you get a chance to send the photos, sometimes they'll send me photos like six months later, and I say, okay, this is the right time for them now, and sometimes it all just sort of happens that way. I let the projects fall where they're supposed to fall, you know, sometimes I go to in person meetings and I think it went really well and they agree to the price and everything seems like a go, and then they just never contact me, but I never contact that back. I never say hey, so when were you thinking you want to start? No, they can do that to me. I just am completely open, but I don't pursue anybody, and it's actually amazing. It's very passive, but very strong. And I always say yes, they say, ‘can you also paint the ceiling?’ And I say ‘yes, and it will be you know, $4,000 extra’. I never say no, I always say yes, and it's up to them to say no to me that okay, your price is too much. But I always say yes. So that's my attitude now.

    Stephanie Eche  21:57

    It's interesting how your approach has changed from when you were kind of just getting out there, getting your name on walls, literally, and then now that you've had a bunch of murals under your belt, you don't really have to chase people down. I mean, I don't think you really ever had to chase people down that much. I think it's a good place to be and a good way to go about things generally, and as a curator and when I'm looking for artists for projects, I'm the one trying to get the artists to do something, you know, so I'm going to be emailing them or calling them, I mean, I don't call people usually. I just, I'm emailing them to get more information, to figure out how much it would cost, get them the information they need, see what they need. And when artists don't respond to me, it's like, okay, they're just not interested. But it's kind of on the clients side, I think, to, I mean, definitely to give the artist everything they need to be able to give a good quote, and also to be persistent with the artists that they want, because a lot of times the clients I'm working for, they're, they want experienced artists, right? They want to know what they're doing, and often those are the artists who are scheduled 6, 12, two years in advance. So if I'm not on top of dragging them down, I might not ever hear from them, and I don't want to say that people, when people follow up or check in on me that, I never consider anyone desperate or anything like that, but I do think that the way in which an artist interacts with me when I'm reaching out to them, it does kind of show how in demand they are or how experienced they are. If they're like, yeah, I can start next week, and I haven't given them a budget or a contract- when an artist starts working on projects without a contract, it really bothers me and I always have to be like, please don't do any work, we don't have a contract for this, as you know, projects fall through all the time. And it's not anyone's fault, usually. I mean, sometimes it's the developers fault in maybe thinking they had something that they didn't. Sometimes the artist has other things that they need to work on that they can't do this project. Yeah, sometimes I've had artists where they're working on work without any email confirmation or contract, and it's really sad for me, because we can't pay artists when they're doing work that wasn't contracted, especially when I'm working for a client, right? They’re paying me, I'm paying them, there's this whole thing.

    Natasha May Platt  24:16

    Right.

    Stephanie Eche  24:17

    Yeah. How would you describe your favorite client?

    Natasha May Platt  24:21

    Well, I mean, my, my most important, earliest client who believed in me and gave me a chance is Yumi Kim. And it's just so easy to work with them, because I've kept my prices low for them. I've raised them slightly, but I just really appreciate what they've done for me, and so we have this very balanced, chill relationship where they are like, okay, paint the wall, they Venmo me, I don't even see them. It's not a high pressure thing, but it's my most important mural in some ways, because it's, of its popularity on Instagram and it’s location. And also the fact that I can change it every six months and they, they support that and they believe in that and they're consistent with that. A lot of clients say, ‘oh, we love that model, we want you to paint a mural every six months’, but they, they get too busy or distracted. But you Yumi Kim is like clockwork, they're- because they're a fashion company, so they understand seasons, so it's very tied to when their spring collection comes in. They're like, contact Natasha. It just works effortlessly. I think I painted seven or eight versions, I have to go back and count.

    Stephanie Eche 25:27

    Wow.

    Natasha May Platt  25:28

    At this point. Yeah, it's at least that many, I actually lost some of my old murals in this hard drive failure that I had. So I don't have records of all of them, but- because I started really at the beginning, so I lost a few of the earliest ones. It's a very trusting- I feel that Yumi Kim- well, the woman's name is Kim, but the brand Yumi Kim has the same sort of open relationship to the world that I do, which is why they believed in me in the beginning. Yeah, they just accept, oh, she wants to paint a mural? We’ll let her paint a mural, and then, and then they just continue it, and I love that type of relationship, and I have no contract with them. I actually- so, I have two sides of my personality. I don't like contracts, because I think that contracts can be you know, overturned, and then you're going to go to court, and it's like, are you really going to spend this money to, you know, fight out this contract. Of course, with large projects, where there's insurance and for example, the city of Yonkers, it was like a 52 page contract.

    Stephanie Eche 26:29

    Oh my god.

    Natasha May Platt  26:30

    And that's to be, that's to be expected when you're dealing with any kind of organization, bureaucratic organization. But if it's a small business, or a person, an individual, I never write contracts, because I believe in trust, and I trust them. There are many times, like I said, who I never follow through on the project with and they are the untrustworthy people. They're the people that if I tell them to send me a photo, they don't send me a photo, and so the project never happens. But the people that I end up working with are the people who have done all of the steps that I've laid out for them, which may include climbing the wall and painting it for me, getting the right equipment for me, and they do these things, not because it's required in a contract, but because that's what's going to get me to the site, and they, I think, respect my trusting nature as well. So it's like, it becomes a very easy transaction, and I prefer to keep it that way. That's how I've done it so far. It's just sort of a revolutionary advice, you know, people always say, yeah, fight for your rights, you know, have a contract. But on an individual level, I think it's a personal respect that I always stand up for myself and I always ask for what I need, and so I believe that they will pay me and they always do. I mean, they always love my work so much, sometimes they give me extra, really. So, that's what it is now, if you talk to me in a year, maybe I'll change again, but.

    Stephanie Eche 27:50

    I think that's a good distinction, though, you have kind of your initial question and if they don't follow up with it, you kind of know where they stand. And then depending on if they're an individual or a small business, versus a government entity or a big developer, those are just two different ballgames. And I imagine the budgets are also very different.

    Natasha May Platt  28:08

    Sometimes, but you'd be surprised. I was paid like $8,000 for a small business mural recently, and sometimes these government things, they could be like, 6,000 or 7,000, so.

    Stephanie Eche  28:21

    Right.

    Natasha May Platt  28:21

    Yeah. I mean, it can be, but it's not really about that. It's interesting. Yeah.

    Stephanie Eche 28:27

    On the client side, keeping the contract as simple as possible. That's one thing that drives me nuts with my developer clients. They have these intense contracts and I have to be like, can we just use this two page thing? I know, you need something, but it's just, it's really intimidating, I think, for an artist, and also, the reality is, whoever has the most money is going to win anyway, like you said, and most- even an established artist, they still aren't going to have as much money as a huge real estate investment trust or a huge- I mean, government entities don't always have to switch money right now. But in the end of the day, it's protecting the party that has the most assets.

    Natasha May Platt  29:02

    Absolutely.

    Stephanie Eche  29:03

    So yeah, I think to your point, it doesn't always mean anything.

    Natasha May Platt  29:07

    I don't like contracts. I feel that, like you're saying it's a lot, if you, if liability gets put back on the artist, damage to the property gets put back on the artists, it's a lot of things that I don't like to sign. And I'm always happy when, you know, I work with a business that they ask me if I want a contract, and I'm kind of like no, and then they're kind of like no too and I'm like, cool, we're on the same page, if something happens, we'll figure it out, because we don't have anything in writing. So because those contracts that I sign, I never feel that they protect me. In fact, they put so much blame and responsibility on me and my workers. So whatever. So that's one side. And the other side is sometimes I find things hidden in the contracts, like we own the copyright to your work. And, you know, I push back on that and I say that's not in the scope of the original project that we had lined out, so if you want that yes, because I always say yes. I don't say no, I cannot do this, but I say yes, and it will be more money. So sometimes they change the contract that way.

    Stephanie Eche 30:09

    Yeah, for sure, you should definitely be getting a lot more money if they're owning the work in any way. How do you make money and how has this changed since you transitioned to being a full time artist?

    Natasha May Platt  30:18

    Yeah, well, I make money by painting murals. But I do believe in- and it's been really, really good, actually. But, I do believe in diversification of income streams. So I want to get into monetizing my YouTube channel, which is still a long way off, but it sort of takes a really long time, then it happens overnight, that's what I've kind of been noticing. So I would love to monetize YouTube and then also, licensing. That's something I just finished my portfolio for, like two weeks ago, again, it was something I didn't have time to work on. But I know someone who licenses their work for all sorts of paper products, I think my work would be really- and he gets a steady income from that. So yeah, so licensing and YouTube are what I'm looking at. But so far, it's been purely mural work. And I usually paint, when it's normal in the world, I paint, I would say, four to five murals every single month, and I sort of have to schedule my vacations in, which I really prioritize, because that's good for my body, because my body does get tired from all the repetitive motions of painting so much. It was the golden era of murals before COVID.

    Stephanie Eche  31:33

    Right!

    Natasha May Platt  31:35

    I mean, now I'm actually doing some digital work for, for example, two mask companies.

    Stephanie Eche  31:40

    Oh that’s awesome!

    Natasha May Platt  31:43

    I have to finish that, I finished one, but I have to finish the second this weekend. And then I actually was commissioned to make four videos for a client for their social media. So again, my video editing skills came in, right at the right time, because everybody wants video now. So maybe that's going to be what I'm looking at in the future is digital work and video editing, but in the past it was all murals.

    Stephanie Eche  32:05

    I think that's really interesting, because a lot of times being a mural artist is really, it's a cool job, you know, but sometimes people don't talk about the physical impact it has on you. And you can't- I mean, you paint everyday, I know you paint every day, but you can't always paint a 10 story mural every day, right? So you have to have that diversification in activities and you have your studio practice, now you're moving into video and doing digital work and all of those together, I think can actually help you sustain a longer, sustain your life really, as an artist.

    Natasha May Platt  32:39

    Yeah. Again, like I said, I don't even see my purpose in my life as being an artist. So I prioritize my health and my mental well being the most. So I used to go for these Ayurvedic retreats in India for 10 days, twice a year, where they just basically massage you in hot oil for like three hours a day. So these types of things are very rejuvenatory for my body.

    Stephanie Eche 32:59

    Yeah, I think you do a really good job of that too, knowing when you need to have those breaks and putting, like you said, scheduling them in early so that you're not burnt out.

    Natasha May Platt  33:08

    Mm hmm.

    Stephanie Eche 33:08

    What advice would you give someone wanting to pursue a, I was going to ask a career, but I think a life like yours.

    Natasha May Platt  33:17

    Oh, my god. I mean, my life is my destiny. Everybody has their own destiny. So that's why I think meditation is the most important thing. Because, again, it's not looking for something or doing something or trying to be something but it's letting, it's dipping down into that deepest dive of who you are, and then just letting it unfold, but it does take time. It really takes time. It's not like meditating- it’s not about doing it long, or well or correct, but it's about doing it consistently and not judging the experience. I mean, people think like oh, I meditate so much, I don't have thoughts when I meditate. It's like, you always have thoughts when you meditate. Your mind thinks that's what your mind does, your mouth chews food and talks, your mind thinks, you're not going to stop the nature of the mind, but it's that you don't get obsessed or captivated or tranced by those thoughts. You're just kind of like, alright, my mind is doing the mind thing, my stomach is digesting food, my blood is going through my veins, all of these things are happening, but sometimes we only are our thoughts. Anyway, that's a long tangent, to tell that I never thought I would be a mural artist. And so it's, I think the ease that had happened for me comes out of many years of hardship in other careers. And some people found it very easy to become a fashion designer, right? But I wanted to be a fashion designer and for 10 years I was struggling and sort of it was happening but I was hitting walls. So everybody has their thing which suddenly becomes easy and it may not be what you think it is. Or you're working so hard at something else and then this other thing just kind of flowers in the background and then suddenly it's your life. So that's why I think meditation is the central thing and that will change. I might not be a muralist after Coronavirus. I just am relying on my meditation practice to guide me into the next effortless evolution of the life. You know, work hard, believe in yourself, but all of those things come from, from seeing yourself, in your true form from meditating. So that is my, that is my answer.

    Stephanie Eche  35:27

    I think that's a really good answer, because a lot of times, I think, especially with- especially now because we're viewing each other's lives only through an internet connection, which is often their social media presence or what they're posting on, I guess, what they're emailing out, or I don't know, you can manipulate how you present yourself and I find that a lot of people might be unhappy with their lives not so much because, maybe they think, oh, if I'm doing this or if I'm doing that, but it's so much more about knowing what you enjoy and what that is that is fulfilling you. Yeah, what comes to you easiest, but also, like you said, working hard towards it. So it's not like this comes and all of a sudden, I'm a master at this thing. It still takes work, but there's a difference between chasing after someone else's dream and just settling into yourself more.

    Natasha May Platt  36:15

    Right. And I think that anything you do in life can be easily transferred. My mom always used to tell me there's no such thing as a waste. So it looks like I spent eight years working in this fashion industry, and, you know, one of my best friends asked me recently, she's like, ‘you're doing so well now, do you regret all that time that you spent in this fashion industry?’ And I said, ‘absolutely not’, all that momentum, and all of that energy was built up and it just flipped into this other form. But if I didn't have- and everyone has that, I think. You know, you can spend, you know, people spend 15 years being a football quarterback and then suddenly they're something else, but it's like all of the discipline and energy and skills that they achieved internally through that dedication to work, it just shifts effortlessly into a new form. So our society is so linear, I faced so much discrimination, honestly, in terms of the fact that I didn't go to fashion school or art school. And there just kind of like, we can't understand you, you want to do B, but you studied A, they don't match. And I'm like, are you that dumb? I'm a human being, I have a body and a mind and desires and I have all sorts of complicated things, do you not? But they all work together.

    Stephanie Eche  37:33

    People are always confused when I tell them what I studied in college, and then, or that I didn't study art, or

    Natasha May Platt  37:39

    Yeah.

    Stephanie Eche  37:40

    I don't know. But most of the people I admire, they didn't necessarily study what they're doing.

    Natasha May Platt  37:43

    No!

    Stephanie Eche  37:43

    They probably don't have a graduate degree. They're just doing it and they're doing- they're following their curiosity and it's getting them to where they want,

    Natasha May Platt  37:52

    Right.

    Stephanie Eche  37:52

    Where they feel right, you know.

    Natasha May Platt  37:53

    And then the other side is some people say, oh, it doesn't matter what you study in college, and I didn't use my degree at all. And you could look at it that way, but I believe 1,000% I am who I am because of what I studied in college, because I studied philosophy because I had all these questions about life and the human soul. And I wanted to know about it and that's what I wanted to do at that time, and that absolutely led me to where I am now in my own life. Maybe the world cannot see the fruits of that, I haven't written a book about philosophy, so they can't make the connection. But, I firmly believe that, again, if you're following each stone in your life and doing what you think is right at that time, all of those pursuits together inform your existence. It's not, it’s not a linear thing and it's not a product based thing, people look at what you studied and your output. But, it's like, oh, you didn't output what you were input. But we're not machines that are so linear, things are much more complex, you know, I have all these thoughts and these feelings and that's who I am as a being, and then I paint flowers and the energy that I infuse my flowers with is intangible and derived from my inner state of being and I think that's why people resonate with them and feel something. It's not just any flower, it’s not anybody painting a flower, it's me painting a flower with all of the emotion that I have. It's very hard to explain to some people that connection. But that's okay, they can feel it, their soul can feel it and that's why they want my mural in their house.

    Stephanie Eche  38:24

    I think that distinguishes what excites you or what people are interested in and what just kind of falls flat when there's just not much depth to the work and it's, it is totally intangible but it's, it's something that the artist needs, not necessarily the artist, just the person, any, whatever you're doing, having those layers and having that depth to yourself whether or not people can exactly see it, they're going to feel it in some way.

    Natasha May Platt  39:46

    Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because I get a lot, oh, your murals are so girly, you paint flowers, pretty colors, Instagram backdrops, and yeah, actually, that is a part of me, I don't disown that. I love fashion, I love all the bloggers that support my murals. I don't judge them either as being shallow, you know, to build a successful business, doing anything, there is depth and there is struggle, and there is pursuing your destiny, so I do not disown just a pretty decoration. If that's what you see, and that's what makes you happy, great, you know, but in all of us, there is so much depth, so I don't see a flower or painting a flower as inferior just because it's pretty. It's pretty and it, you know- and also, it's the, it's my souls work, just painting is itself deep, it doesn't matter what I'm painting, I can paint, you know, a person or a flower, I don't- yeah, I've never been someone who needs to have an overt meaning to my work, like I painted this, you know, socially conscious, revolutionary, feminist reactionary piece and this means this and this means that and this means that, that's fine for some people, I just don't think that way.

    Stephanie Eche  40:21

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    Stephanie Eche  41:09

    What are some things that you've read or listened to that's inspired you recently?

    Natasha May Platt  41:12

    Well, again, I love to read. And I read a lot of fiction, like really good, beautiful, complex portrayals of characters. I'm reading Palace Walk by an Egyptian author, but I'm not going to even try to pronounce his name because I don't know how to. He has a very nuanced description of Egypt at a specific time in history and a family's dynamics, and it's just- yeah, I love getting deep into the human psyche through fiction, but I can't say oh, because I read this book about Egypt, I'm going to paint Egyptian flowers, it’s not like that. It's just this whole miasma of feelings. So, I read a lot, and I just finished The Book of Laughing and Forgetting by Milan Kundera, who's one of my favorite writers, who I see as an artist because he really talks a lot about warm and he sort of, he'll analyze a memory that someone has in the way of a painting. Like, f8or example, he was talking about this woman who was in Czechoslovakia when it was being conquered by the USSR. And the tanks were coming in, but she was very upset because her apricot trees had not bloomed that season. So he describes like, okay, for the world, it may seem that the tanks coming in to conquer her country are more important than her apricot trees not blooming, but in her mind, it is not like that and it's this giant tree in her memory with no apricots and this tiny truck, tank in the background, you know, like the proportion and the scale and the perspective of things. And who is to say what is more important, you know? And so I love looking at life in that, in that way and words sort of open up that space.

    Stephanie Eche 42:53

    Yeah, even in you saying that it makes me think of your use of scale and perspective in your work. Sure, someone might be like, oh, it's just a bunch of flowers, but you are very specific in your placement and that's why you need a picture of the wall. You can't really create something without knowing what the space is or who's interacting with it.

    Natasha May Platt  43:10

    Yes, that's true. I think about scale and perspective a lot and I don't think it has to be lifelike. Like I can make a bug, if I paint a bug, 10 times larger than the flower, you know, and it's just, it's, you're totally right. And that's why I love his writing, where he describes in detail these memories and it's like, yeah, the world tells you it's more important that these, you know, tanks invaded your country, but for her, it really was more important that her apricot trees didn't blossom that year. And I love that, it's giving autonomy back to the human to experience what is true for them.

    Stephanie Eche  43:42

    Well, we'll definitely link to those books in the show notes. Is there anything else you want to share?

    Natasha May Platt  43:48

    Yeah, I mean, I recently heard one more thing, which I thought was interesting. Somebody, my guru, actually, but it was in my silent retreat, was saying that there's three types of pleasure. And it's so interesting, I'm looking at everything in my life like that now, and they have Sanskrit names, whatever, I won't get into it, but basically, one type of pleasure is a pleasure that has no pleasure actually, beginning, middle or end. So an addiction is like that, it's like you have to smoke the cigarette, but you're not like, oh, my god, I feel so good right now, maybe sometimes, but most of the time, it's just this, this habit that you have to do it. So this is the pleasure that has no pleasure, then there's pleasure that you feel intense pleasure in the beginning, but then it goes downhill. So, you know, for example, eating a bunch of cake really fast and you feel like oh, I love this, this is so good and then you start feeling sick, whatever, or, you know, a love interest. You're obsessed with this person, you can't get enough of them, and then you know, slowly you start, it starts unraveling. But, the third type of pleasure is the pleasure of truth, which actually takes discipline and hard work in the beginning, but leads to everlasting joy in the end. So, an example could be, you know, running every day for the people that like to run. It's like, it's not easy initially to start that habit, but over time, it's the most important thing in their lives, and it continues to sustain them. And any discipline, basically is like that, so, you know, meditation is like that, eating correctly as like that, maybe it's not as amazingly tasteful in the beginning, but over time you feel better, your body feels good. So I was thinking about that just in every aspect of my life and every small instance, like every single thing, what type of pleasure am I experiencing right now? It's very interesting. And I think it's almost like everything that you need to know is in that if you can really be aware of that.

    Stephanie Eche 45:43

    Well, are you saying that you should aim for pleasure that sustains and not the meaningless or the empty pleasure?

    Natasha May Platt  45:50

    Yeah. Yeah, but again, it's like you don't change your actions, really, because that, that creates disharmony. I really believe in that, it's not like, oh, I shouldn't eat the cake, because it gives me the other kind of- don't overthink it. It's like, do what exactly what is natural to you, but it's just, just noticing it. You're like, oh, that's interesting. And I think a lot about my life and different things that I thought- like, for example, I had this terrible year in France, when I was in college, were I was so depressed, and I took a year off from college because I couldn't deal with college. And for the longest time, in my own memory of my life, talking about memories and perspective, it was that year was a wasted year. And I- that's how I told it to myself, oh, this was good, that was good, and this year, it was just that you really messed up Natasha, you didn't do anything. But then when I became a muralist, I realized that was the most important year of my life for that thing, because what I did during that time, was just draw sculptures, and so I learned that rhythm- hours and hours and hours a day, I would go to the museum and just draw. And I learned that natural rhythm in my hand, of just the ease of capturing something that I see and putting it down on paper, and it's just like I had an entire year where I did that, right? But I had no friends, I had no joy, I mean, it was the worst year of my life and I was like, what a waste. But, yeah, everything can be reorganized when you start thinking of it. And it's just, it's just something interesting I think about in, in big and small forms in my life, just noticing it.

    Stephanie Eche  47:19

    That's really cool you were able to look back at that. And also, I think really good advice to just accept what it is that you're doing, and notice how it makes you feel.

    Natasha May Platt  47:28

    Yeah.

    Stephanie Eche 47:29

    Pretty basic, but so many of us don't do that.

    Natasha May Platt  47:32

    Yeah, I just firmly believe when it doesn't make you feel good anymore, you will stop doing it, naturally. So like, for example, I eat tons of sugar, but I never judge myself for that, I'm not like, oh, I should stop eating so much sugar, I mean, I know it's bad for you, but it's like whatever, until I physically feel not good from it, then I will start on my own, I trust myself enough that I will not do it when I, when I don't feel good, but right now I'm still enjoying it, you know? So, you know, maybe it's the, it's the joy that's going to go downhill but it's like that's where I am, I can't change myself. Because once you start trying to be so, oh my god, then you go crazy.

    Stephanie Eche 48:11

    Yeah, for sure. Where can our listeners connect with you online?

    Natasha May Platt  48:15

    YouTube: Surface of Beauty and Instagram: surfaceofbeauty and TikTok, I weirdly went viral and now I’m famous.

    Stephanie Eche  48:21

    Oh I haven't seen that, I have to see that.

    Natasha May Platt  48:24

    Yeah, my first video got 3.2 million views. So, just like, okay? So I have like 60,000 followers on TikTok now. So yeah, TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube, I'm surfaceofbeauty everywhere.

    Stephanie Eche  48:35

    Can you describe the TikTok video real quick?

    Natasha May Platt  48:38

    Well, it's actually my Instagram, one of my Instagram TV videos. It's just me painting the Yumi Kim mural. It’s the same exact video. It got, it got 11,000 views on Instagram, which is still pretty good. It's way more than any of my other videos got. I think what it did, what, what happened on tik tok is, at the exact moment that I start rolling the new color on the old mural to make the base coat to paint the new one, at that exact moment this guy comes by and my, my assistant was filming me just making the first swipe and he's like, ‘oh, no!’ And I'm like, ‘oh, yes!’ But it was totally natural, I didn't even remember I was being filmed, and he’s like ‘no!’ And I’m like ‘yes!’ And we’re screaming at each other. So I think on TikTok in that format it just caught people's attention because they like funny videos. And then I realized that's an example of when you look back and you remember things, like at the time I just thought, oh, this guy, is he going to harass me, I deal with a lot of street harassment. But then I'm like, this guy was the biggest gift of my month, his excitement, and him speaking out at that time and not just holding it within, it helped me so much, and I'm so grateful to this man. So you never know what impact you have on other people's lives.

    Stephanie Eche  49:49

    Right, and the fact that you were saying yes, which I feel like you've talked about a lot. That's so funny.

    Natasha May Platt  49:54

    I know. My friend, my, one of my best friends, I sent her the video and she pointed that out to me. She was like, ‘you are just all about yes, you are so in your truth’ and I was like, ‘it was just so natural to me, that's what came out’.

    Stephanie Eche  50:06

    Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you so much for taking time to chat. I'm really excited to link to all the things we talked about today. So, definitely follow Natasha on YouTube, Instagram, Surface of Beauty, TikTok. We might see another video from her soon on TikTok. You're doing videos weekly on YouTube, right?

    Natasha May Platt  50:23

    Yeah. Thursday, Thursday night, Friday morning. Around that time I post.

    Stephanie Eche  50:28

    I think it's super interesting how you've just dived in, took a class, are doing it yourself, that's awesome.

    Natasha May Platt  50:35

    Yeah, I mean, that's my motto is just start. I know my videos aren’t perfect, I know my lighting is not good, I'm terrible at audio editing. Some people told me they can't hear my first video. I'm like, okay, I did the best I could and I'll get better. It's like, if I don't start, then it's never going to happen.

    Stephanie Eche  50:51

    Yeah, for sure. Well, I really enjoyed learning more about your work, and I hope we can see each other in person soon.

    Natasha May Platt  50:57

    Me too. Social distancing. I'm all about it. Just walk six feet apart. Well, thank you, Stephanie.

    Stephanie Eche  51:04

    Yeah, thank you so much. Bye, have a good day.

    Natasha May Platt  51:08

    Thanks, you too.

    Stephanie Eche  51:12

    Thanks for listening to this episode of First Coat. If you liked this podcast, please leave a review. Make sure to subscribe to the First Coat podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, and follow us on Instagram @firstcoatpodcast or @distillcreative. First Coat is a production of my company Distill Creative. Check us out at distillcreative.com.




PODCASTStephanie Echepodcast, public art, mural artists, interviews